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Strange Fruit, Pt. I

Posted by pmayo on 09/04/08 at 12:00 AM • 141 Comments

I’m going to give you a few words.  You’ve heard them all before.  Let’s call them Group A.

Toolsy.  A great athlete.  Freak.  Stud.  Horse.  Specimen.

Got those?  Here’s another list.  You’ve heard these, too.  Let’s call them Group B.

Hard worker.  Student of the game.  Crafty.  Clever.  Grinder.  Gamer.  Scrapper.

What do these two lists have in common?  To the readers of the sports pages, these words are easily recognizable; they are the nomenclature of sports journalism. In point of fact, we, the sports fans, have even affected them for our own conversations about sports.  However, it seems that in the minds of most sportswriters, the two groups do not have a damn thing in common.  There is a certain group of athletes who fall under group A, and a certain group that falls under group B.

It is the rare case indeed, where a player from group A ever achieves to group B.

Of course, all of this is a bit abstract at this point, so let’s begin to unpack these models in terms of actual persons.  On August 24, the final day of the Olympic Games, Bob Costas sat down to discuss the games with Jacques Rogge, Chairman of the International Olympic Committee at halftime of the U.S.-Spain Gold Medal basketball matchup.  Costas, for once, eschewed the anecdotes and feel-good stories, and became a journalist, hammering Rogge with questions about China’s abysmal human rights record, the censoring of foreign journalists’ Internet access, and the controversial decision to eliminate softball and baseball from the Olympics, an effort largely spearheaded and overseen by Rogge since 2002.  Rogge ably deflected the questions about human rights and censorship, but when it came to the question of why softball and baseball had been eliminated, he suddenly decided to be candid.  His answer? Baseball’s PED problem.  And Barry Bonds. In an extraordinary leap in logic, Rogge reasoned that baseball has a PED problem, many countries cannot differentiate softball from baseball, so softball suffered competitively because many countries did not send teams, because of the negative association of softball with baseball.  But Rogge was curiously purposive in putting a face to the PED problem in baseball, in dropping just one name: Barry Bonds.  While it stretched the bounds of use-mention distinctions, it was a masterful stroke.  If there were medals for politicking, Rogge would mount a serious challenge for the gold, because Rogge quickly recognized that what Americans need most of all is a scapegoat, so he picked the biggest one in the room.  And why not?  Barry’s been blamed for everything from elbow pads to maple bats.  Killing two Olympic sports is all in a day’s work for Barry Lamar Bonds.

See, remember that rare group I spoke about, the guys from group A that get to be in group B, as well?  Well, Barry Bonds was one of those guys.  A transcendent talent, yes, but also a smart guy, to boot, but when Barry got a bit too good, he didn’t kowtow to the sportswriters.  He didn’t ask their permission to speak his mind.  He wasn’t interested in TWIB fluff pieces or sound bites.  He just did what he pleased. He was brash, confrontational, and intensely private. They called him “brooding.” A decade or two earlier, they’d have called him “uppity.”  Barry had crawfished on the deal, you see, and the sportswriters never forgave him for it. They’d let him into the smart guy club, and he responded by getting mud on the carpet. Never mind that their shoes were just as dirty. Barry Bonds was going to become the face of the steroid problem.

A black face for the black spot on the white man’s game.

And because of Jacques Rogge, it’s happening all over again.

I’m going digress for a moment to say that this piece, and those forthcoming, should not be construed as referendum on whether or not Bonds used steroids, perjured himself, cheated on his taxes and his wife, or punched Jeff Kent. Those are conversations that, one, lie beyond the scope of this piece, and two, that I’m just not interested in having. In short, strawmannish comments that seek to argue those points will simply be ignored.

The point here is this: Why did Rogge know exactly which name to mention?  I’m going to suggest an answer to that question in forthcoming installments, but for the moment, let it suffice to say that perhaps more so than any other sport, baseball carries a legacy of entrenched, institutionalized racism, and that past is reflected in the curious disparity in the coverage of white athletes and the coverage of African American and Hispanic athletes.

Comments

1. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 02:45 AM

Pie: 1/5, 2 RBI

Vitters: 0/4
Flaherty: 2/4, 2B
Carpenter: 3.1 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 7 K, 3 BB, 1 GO-1 FO

2. SS — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:43 AM

Hey, I finally found the photo of the next VP at the Great Alaska Shootout from last year.

PS I’m in off season mode, already.  This team had once purpose to me and that was to win the World Series.  When Zambrano went down that went out the door, so I haven’t watched a pitch since then.  You should try it, its good for your sanity.

3. oog of ulam, Assistant Key Grip — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:02 AM

In short, strawmannish comments that seek to argue those points will simply be ignored.

I think it’s “strawmanly,” PM.

4. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:06 AM

This team had once purpose to me and that was to win the World Series.  When Zambrano went down that went out the door, so I haven’t watched a pitch since then.

The odds of them doing what they should have done (win the World Series) were so slim that I view the Z/Harden incidents as a blessing. They’ve saved me from several weeks of anguish.

I imagine that when the Cubs do win the World Series, it will be a team like the 2006 Cardinals. They’ll come out of nowhere like the 2003 team did or limp into the playoffs and tear shit up.

5. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:22 AM

limp into the playoffs and tear shit up.

Couldn’t they do that this year?  At this point them going to the playoffs is pretty much a limp-in. 
Lou made a comment that he hopes Harden can go next week.  Sounds like it’s much worse than has been out.

6. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:31 AM

Couldn’t they do that this year?

It’s possible. This team actually reminds me a bit of the 2005 CHW team that almost faltered at the end of the season. Of course, they had health on their side.

If Z, Harden and everyone else are healthy for the playoffs, none of this matters. If they aren’t, well…

7. SS — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:38 AM

8. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:44 AM

That’s pretty much where I am too, SS.

9. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:45 AM

I’m actually more like this:

10. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:50 AM

im prepared for Jason Marquis to start game 1 of the NLDS

11. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:51 AM

im prepared for Jason Marquis to start game 1 of the NLDS

If we’re playing ARI, it won’t matter.

12. oog of ulam, Assistant Key Grip — Sep 04, 2008 @ 05:04 AM

Why the fuck didnt Z get an MRI today? Selfish prick.

from Myspace Cubs

13. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 05:10 AM

from Myspace Cubs

That’s what you get for combining stupid fans with a stupid site.

Funny, I bet a lot of people say the same thing about ACB.

14. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 05:26 AM

pmayo, I think you’re spot on.  But rather than looking at “why Bonds?” which I think you answered quite nicely, I wanted to point out something about the words in the two groupings: that group A is all about what player X is, while group B is all about what player Y does.  so one grouping is a matter of essential and inescapable qualities & the other one is defined by the use of effort/agency/initiative to overcome other qualities. 

It’s a very telling difference & it speaks to a kind of racial insecurity or racial anxiety on the part of (white) sports mediators and fans: how do guys like us compete with these guys who are taking over/have taken over the sport?  By drawing on wells of scrappiness, personal courage and intelligence!  By not being afraid to get our uniforms dirty!  So, two quick things about this anxiety:

1). It’s structural, not personal.  It’s not a matter of everyone or even anyone being a “racist” in the broad sense of the word.  it’s a sentiment that’s evolved as professional sports have been integrated, that finds expression in these coded terms & which comes down to people through language.  We use the language that we’re handed & it expresses our thoughts, but it also shapes them, especially in things like the formation of categories and divisions, elements of social cognition. 

2). Because of this, it isn’t just “white” broadcasters, fans, etc. who use & reinforce the divisions, & it isn’t some kind of conspiracy on the part of those fans and establishment voices who are/look “white.”  it’s a cultural pattern that expresses a narrative that makes the majority of sports fans comfortable by making them feel better about the players that they can identify with.

it’s also a bunch of stupid bullshit to have to tune out while watching a game.

15. oog of ulam, Assistant Key Grip — Sep 04, 2008 @ 05:43 AM

Some of it must be incidental as well. I do think small white players receive the “scrappy” accolade more often (if entirely) than black or latino players. But journalists are first and foremost concerned with crafting narrative, and that works easily in once-a-week football, but not so easily in an everyday game of luck, timing and precision, and the massive accumulation of data that is baseball.
Journalists return to the notion of the scrappy underdog constantly because there simply aren’t enough stories to craft day after day after day with the same game. That it happens to be white players who receive the title bespeaks fear, or possibly simple identification with someone similar to the primarily white fan bases and announcers/journalists/radio personalities. Maddog mentioned that at some point: it isn’t outright racism, but it shows that fans who haven’t considered the game from fresh angles (and it’s difficult to when your chief sources on it spin redundant narratives) will identify with archetypal characters and assign those characteristics according to the easiest path.

16. oog of ulam, Assistant Key Grip — Sep 04, 2008 @ 05:44 AM

Sorry, Urk. I think I may have responded before reading your second point.

17. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 06:03 AM

Yeah, i’d agree oog, it’s all about the narrative.  Better narrators please!

18. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 06:10 AM

Yeah, i’d agree oog, it’s all about the narrative.  Better narrators please!

James Earl Jones.

19. oog of ulam, Assistant Key Grip — Sep 04, 2008 @ 06:50 AM

Keith David.

20. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 07:03 AM

Larry Fishburne.

21. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 07:58 AM

Morgan Freeman is by the far the ruler of voice-over.

22. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:05 AM

JMan’s mother is by the far the ruler of voice-over.

Fixed.

23. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:19 AM

JG’s shaved anus is by far the ruler of voice-over.

fixed

24. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:28 AM

I was worried about them pushing harden back so far (its actually a turn and a half), but if they throw him wednesday like they said his next turn is game 1 of the brewers series at wrigley (because of the off day 5 days rest).  his next turn would be 4 days rest for the sunday 9/21 cards game, which is followed by the mets series.

I really believe the goal is to throw him on wednesday and in the brewers series.  at that point if they are in the playoffs or about to clinch, they push him a few days to throw 4 or 5 innings in the mets series, which sets him up to pitch Game 1 on a week+ rest.

Home field is nice and all but with z presumably out getting their pitchers lined up is more important.  i would bet the rent that harden, dempster and lilly do not throw in that last brewers series unless a playoff spot is on the line.

Harden may be hurt, or if not may still get hurt, but the scheduling suggests this is lining up like they actually planned.  Lets not deceive ourselves - they got harden with the purpose to pitch 5 games in october - he has already given them more than i’m sure they counted on, and ‘discomfort’ gives them an excuse to sit him down without looking like they are counting their chickens.

just one person’s view…

25. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:32 AM

Yeah, i’d agree oog, it’s all about the narrative.  Better narrators please!

Bill Kurtis

26. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:34 AM

I bring good news, maybe.

Carlos Zambrano has undergone an MRI today on his right arm, and indications are he will not miss the rest of the season as some have feared.

The Cubs’ right-hander was supposed to take the exam yesterday, but he couldn’t do it because of family reasons.

27. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:38 AM

JG’s shaved anus is about to pass some shit.

28. HORNY GOAT — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:41 AM

MRI

29. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:47 AM

tendinitis.  Can’t remember who called it but kudos to you.

30. ccd — Sep 04, 2008 @ 08:56 AM

great news, maybe Big Z new best not wanting the dye in his arm.

31. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:08 AM

Is there some risk to the dye? And is tendinitis something they just diagnose when they can’t see any structural problems but there’s pain? Because if they settled on tendinitis just because the MRI sans-dye showed nothing wrong, I’m going to ratchet up my concern level a bit.

32. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:32 AM

Excellent stuff here, pmayo.  well done.  I’m looking forward to the rest of it.

Vlad, tendinitis is something that can be diagnosed.  Tendinitis is just an inflammation in the tendon.  There’s no risk for the dye.  Zambrano is now scheduled to start in about 8 or 9 days.  I say keep him out until the final 2 starts of the year.

As for the Cubs and the postseason…

When were the Cubs supposed to win the World Series?  I don’t mean to sound rude here, but the day the AL won the All-Star game every single team in the playoffs from the AL had higher odds of winning the WS than did any NL team.  The Cubs are likely going into the postseason with the 5th best chance of winning it all.  That hasn’t changed since early July. 

When the Cubs traded for Harden they told us they were going to skip starts for him and we all agreed that as long as he was ready for October we didn’t care what they did.  Nothing has changed. 

I’m certainly not someone to get on people about overreacting, but that’s what a lot of you are doing.  The Cubs are in no worse shape today than they were 5 days ago.  This team is quite possibly the best team in baseball and they’re still entering the playoffs with the 5th highest odds of winning it all.  It’s the same today as it was before these 5 losses and the injury to Zambrano and Lou saying something about Harden though Harden has disagreed. 

most of all, once you get into the playoffs it just doesn’t matter.  Sure, I’d like to root for the best team in baseball by a long margin as much as any of you, but if they win this division I could care less how they did so. 

I hate sounding like Al and that’s not what I’m doing, or not what I’m trying to do. 

Most of all, who gives a fuck?  If they don’t win it all, I’ll be pissed off for about 24 hours and then move on.  This was NEVER a team that should have won the World Series.  Not from the beginning and not at any point in the season.  This is just a really good baseball team and if you can’t continue to play well after an injury or two, well, you weren’t that good in the first place. 

With all due respect, SS, not watching a pitch since the injury isn’t good for anyone’s sanity.  It’s weak.  I’ve rooted for some shitty Cubs teams and will continue to do so.  Are they going to win it this year?  Odds are not in their favor, but they NEVER were.  You get as optimistic as I get negative at times.  They’re going to have to beat 3 really good teams in the playoffs and the odds of any of the 8 teams doing it are just simply low.  Less than 20%.  Probably less than 13% for any NL team. 

Ryno is actually right in the sense that their odds were already low and their odds without Z or Harden are even lower. 

As much as I feel that Zambrano is truly a great pitcher, he’s not.  He’s the 3rd best starter on this team this year and probably the 4th best starter over the last 8 or 10 weeks.  I’m just not that concerned about losing Zambrano.  It’s the equivalent of the Phillies losing Jamie Moyer.  I don’t think any of us would think that’s much of a big deal if that happened.

End of rant

33. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:33 AM

I haven’t followed the comments here much lately, but I think it was HG who said he thought it would be tendinitis.  Maybe.

34. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:37 AM

Rogge was curiously purposive in putting a face to the PED problem in baseball, in dropping just one name: Barry Bonds.

i still can’t get over the fact Rogge mentioned Bonds in connection to why softball and baseball were no longer going to be Olympic events.

35. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:46 AM

Zambrano had an Arthrogram MRI, used to verify proper blood flow. That is why they add the dye. Where the dye is injected, you can be sore and swollen for a 7-10 day period in some instances, since it is injected into the artery beneath the muscle.

Looks like he needed rest, and his condition can 100% be treated with rest, ice and anti-inflammatories.

36. ccd — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:47 AM

Is there some risk to the dye?

Not the dye but the injection of it. Last night it was being speculated that Z refused to take the MRI because the Doc told him he would miss two weeks because of the injection, same as earlier this season. I am not a Dr. and don’t have any experience with this. So please take this all with a great big grain of salt. Maybe someone could shed some light on this.

37. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:51 AM

After Your MRI Arthrogram- You may resume normal activities the next day. Your joints may be stiff or sore the next day, but this should get better in one or two days. If you have significant pain after the test, please contact us or your referring doctor right away. A rare, but possible problem is joint infection, which should be treated right away.


I would assume an athlete needs more than the normal 1-2 day recovery period

38. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:52 AM

Ryno is actually right in the sense that their odds were already low and their odds without Z or Harden are even lower.

Why do you seem surprised by that?

39. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:52 AM

Excellent stuff here, pmayo.  well done.

I agree. Pmayo, you are indeed a strange fruit.

40. HORNY GOAT — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:52 AM

I haven’t followed the comments here much lately, but I think it was HG who said he thought it would be tendinitis.  Maybe

no, wasn’t me. I think it was ygolohcysp. A reasonable guess I thought too. Relieved it wasn’t a tear, but I’ll be happier in 3 weeks when he’s hopefully back on the mound throwing like he’s capable.

41. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:55 AM

good point HG, if he is back, and sucks, what the hell good is that?

42. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:56 AM

Maybe Philly can add on here, but tendinitis is often the result of minor tears and since he’s using the shoulder in a repetitive motion I’d say there’s a good chance there’s a minor tear, but that heals up with scar tissue rather quickly.  Anything larger than a minor tear would surely have shown up in the MRI.  His velocity was actually pretty good from what I’ve gathered though it did decrease, but i’d say that rules out labrum issues.

43. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:58 AM

Why do you seem surprised by that?

I wasn’t surprised.  I was just trying to use something else as an example of the low odds the cubs have of winning it all and you said as much earlier.  Much more to the point than I could have or did. 

Is Al still telling us to savor every moment?

44. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 09:58 AM

Tendinitis is strictly inflammation, does not mean a tear. It can be uncomfortable, all us old bastards have had it. He’ll have to fight through it if it is still around in October. But it is not a pre-cursor to a torn labrum, or any other injury, unless you over-compensate with another body part.

45. HORNY GOAT — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:00 AM

throwing like he’s capable

let me add, capable in the sense of better than his August (how can it be worse?) and yet not the top of his game since we know, since his shoulder strain, he won’t be the same Z for a while, if ever, imo. Who knows though. If that strain/tear, whatever, wasn’t bad and this was the usual dead arm he’s had every august and this tendinitis won’t hurt him, he could be as dominating as ever in the postseason (just crossing fingers)

46. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:00 AM

The Arthrogram MRI is also used to determine joint issues in patients, maybe Carlos is starting to get some Arthritis in his shoulder joint?

47. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:01 AM

Furthermore, what are the odds a team is going to go through an entire season without an extended losing streak?  Pretty damn small I’d guess.  This just happens to have come at the first of September.  Houston is a good team.  From what I’ve gathered, Oswalt and Wolf were lights.  Besides, I’m going tomorrow night and the cubs are 895-104 in games I’ve attended.

48. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:02 AM

One of you guys asked about the dye earlier, the only risk of the dye is a subsequent infection in the injected joint or artery, FWIW.

I’ve had one on my knee (damn college football) and it sucks balls.

49. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:03 AM

Is Al still telling us to savor every moment?

Nope. Not since they’ve sucked.

50. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:03 AM

Thanks a lot, Philly.  So what you’re basically saying is that unless we’ve been flat out lied to, the extent of his injury is just inflammation and he’ll be good to go sooner rather than later? 

To be completely honest, I don’t think this team will miss Zambrano that much.  He’s the 3rd best starter on this team this year and he’s been the 4th best starter for some time now, perhaps even the 5th best. 

I’m much more concerned about Rich Harden and even Ryan Dempster.  if those 2 are healthy and performing as they have so far, the Cubs have a lights out 1-2 punch and that will take them far enough and then you add in Zambrano and Lilly and neither are pushovers.

51. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:05 AM

And for what it’s worth, the Cubs have been much more honest the last 2 or 3 years than they were in the past about injuries.

52. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:06 AM

Unless they are sandbagging us, yes maddog.

Tape an aspirin to it and get your ass back on the field, (dying laughing)

53. HORNY GOAT — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:06 AM

Furthermore, what are the odds a team is going to go through an entire season without an extended losing streak?  Pretty damn small I’d guess.  This just happens to have come at the first of September.  Houston is a good team.  From what I’ve gathered, Oswalt and Wolf were lights.  Besides, I’m going tomorrow night and the cubs are 895-104 in games I’ve attended.

(dying laughing), 895-104? you’re too modest. or keep bad records.

I don’t give a shit about the losing streak, though tuesday night’s game was pretty shitty. I care about 2 top starters going down for the postseason.

54. HORNY GOAT — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:09 AM

To be completely honest, I don’t think this team will miss Zambrano that much.  He’s the 3rd best starter on this team this year

What about his annual “bad augusts”? Every august it’s a dead arm and he bounces back. Can’t we assume he’s not the same pitcher in September, and thus maybe October? I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s our 3rd best when you take that into account when October is when it counts, imo.

55. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:10 AM

Rosenbloom just made a reference to Mark Prior with regards to Rich Harden, which is just laughable.  are the people who work at the Tribune literally retarded?  Are they so fucking stupid as to realize that Harden is in no way, shape, or form similar to mark Prior?

56. ccd — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:10 AM

Besides, I’m going tomorrow night and the cubs are 895-104 in games I’ve attended

just like your other sister…

57. ccd — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:10 AM

deleted

58. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:13 AM

I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s our 3rd best when you take that into account when October is when it counts, imo.

It’s probably not fair, but when we get to this point in the season, it’s all about what these guys have done lately in my opinion.  Maybe Zambrano comes back and has 2 or 3 solid starts, but as of right now, he’d be my 3rd, maybe 4th starter in that NLDS. 

It’s the same issue I have with Fukudome.  That guy hasn’t done jack shit for 4 months and I sure as hell don’t want to see him starting any playoff game simply because he’s not the best option.  If he has a great 3 final weeks then sure, but at this moment, I want the guys who are performing the best. 

Hopefully Zambrano returns and does what he’s capable of and that’s just an added bonus, but I need to see it before I pencil him in as my number 1 in the postseason.  Not that I’m doing any penciling.  Lou is.

59. ccd — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:14 AM

Rosenbloom just made a reference to Mark Prior with regards to Rich Harden, which is just laughable.  are the people who work at the Tribune literally retarded?  Are they so fucking stupid as to realize that Harden is in no way, shape, or form similar to mark Prior?

That guy is such a bad writer it’s not even funny. He really lacks an original thought on the Cubs or most of sport. I think he spends most of his time these days in Vegas covering poker. That’s probably a good place for him.

60. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:14 AM

just like your other sister…

She goes to home games and I go to road games.  Over the last 2000 games the Cubs have been unbelievable when me and my sister have gone to see them.  Something like 1500-500.  Impressive.

61. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:15 AM

Rosenbloom covers poker?  I’d imagine that’s even more difficult to write about.  He needs to write about camp fires.  That’s something he could probably do.

62. ccd — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:17 AM

Something like 1500-500.  Impressive.

AMAZING.

63. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:17 AM

Rosenbloom isn’t a writer, he covers poker, and throws out cynicism on a variety of topics daily. He is Jay Mariotti-lite making way less money. Doesn’t even have a column, just a “blog” in the paper.

64. HORNY GOAT — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:20 AM

Hopefully Zambrano returns and does what he’s capable of and that’s just an added bonus, but I need to see it before I pencil him in as my number 1 in the postseason

I need to see it too. I’m not expecting it, but I do put more importance into the cubs success than you. I think we need him to be close to the dominating Big Z for this team to go all the way.

65. HORNY GOAT — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:22 AM

Rosenbloom

Morrisey is pretty pathetic too.

I’m just glad Mariotti is gone or I’d be tempted to read what that jackass had to say about all this.

66. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:22 AM

From ESPN

CHICAGO—Chicago Cubs ace Carlos Zambrano has right rotator cuff tendinitis and inflammation, an MRI confirmed, a blow to Chicago’s chances of winning the World Series for the first time in a century.

Zambrano received a shot of anti-inflammatory medication and hopes to return to the rotation next week.

General manager Jim Hendry said Zambrano is to start throwing again when the team begins a series in St. Louis on Sept. 10. If all goes well, Zambrano would start at Houston in the following series.

Zambrano, 13-5 this year, left his start Tuesday night against the Astros after five innings, saying he did not feel well. He was examined Wednesday by team orthopedist Dr. Stephen Gryzlo.

Zambrano is 1-1 in his past six starts and has made it past the fifth inning only twice.

Sean Marshall will start in Zambrano’s place this Sunday at Cincinnati. The Cubs began the day with a 4½-game lead in the NL Central and have 22 games remaining, including 16 on the road.

“Hopefully he will be just missing this one start,” Hendry said. “I think it’s a relief that Z doesn’t have anything more significant than what we thought.”

Zambrano was on the disabled list in June with a sore shoulder.

“Obviously Dr. Gryzlo has been right on with all his evaluations,” Hendry said. “He felt this was not going to be a significant problem, not a situation where he had to put on the DL

67. oog of ulam, Assistant Key Grip — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:35 AM

Excellent stuff here, pmayo.  well done.  I’m looking forward to the rest of it.

Vlad, tendinitis is something that can be diagnosed.  Tendinitis is just an inflammation in the tendon.  There’s no risk for the dye.  Zambrano is now scheduled to start in about 8 or 9 days.  I say keep him out until the final 2 starts of the year.

As for the Cubs and the postseason…

When were the Cubs supposed to win the World Series?  I don’t mean to sound rude here, but the day the AL won the All-Star game every single team in the playoffs from the AL had higher odds of winning the WS than did any NL team.  The Cubs are likely going into the postseason with the 5th best chance of winning it all.  That hasn’t changed since early July.

When the Cubs traded for Harden they told us they were going to skip starts for him and we all agreed that as long as he was ready for October we didn’t care what they did.  Nothing has changed.

I’m certainly not someone to get on people about overreacting, but that’s what a lot of you are doing.  The Cubs are in no worse shape today than they were 5 days ago.  This team is quite possibly the best team in baseball and they’re still entering the playoffs with the 5th highest odds of winning it all.  It’s the same today as it was before these 5 losses and the injury to Zambrano and Lou saying something about Harden though Harden has disagreed.

most of all, once you get into the playoffs it just doesn’t matter.  Sure, I’d like to root for the best team in baseball by a long margin as much as any of you, but if they win this division I could care less how they did so.

I hate sounding like Al and that’s not what I’m doing, or not what I’m trying to do.

Most of all, who gives a fuck?  If they don’t win it all, I’ll be pissed off for about 24 hours and then move on.  This was NEVER a team that should have won the World Series.  Not from the beginning and not at any point in the season.  This is just a really good baseball team and if you can’t continue to play well after an injury or two, well, you weren’t that good in the first place.

With all due respect, SS, not watching a pitch since the injury isn’t good for anyone’s sanity.  It’s weak.  I’ve rooted for some shitty Cubs teams and will continue to do so.  Are they going to win it this year?  Odds are not in their favor, but they NEVER were.  You get as optimistic as I get negative at times.  They’re going to have to beat 3 really good teams in the playoffs and the odds of any of the 8 teams doing it are just simply low.  Less than 20%.  Probably less than 13% for any NL team.

Ryno is actually right in the sense that their odds were already low and their odds without Z or Harden are even lower.

As much as I feel that Zambrano is truly a great pitcher, he’s not.  He’s the 3rd best starter on this team this year and probably the 4th best starter over the last 8 or 10 weeks.  I’m just not that concerned about losing Zambrano.  It’s the equivalent of the Phillies losing Jamie Moyer.  I don’t think any of us would think that’s much of a big deal if that happened.

End of rant

TWSS

68. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:43 AM

I do put more importance into the cubs success than you. I think we need him to be close to the dominating Big Z for this team to go all the way.

He’s certainly important, but I think the thing about the playoffs and having success in October is that guys like Ryan theriot can post unbelievable offensive numbers helping carry an offense for a couple of series.  It’s just one small sample size in which anything can happen.  Obviously you want your best players to be at their best, but most teams that go all the way get some great unexpected offensive or pitching contribution.

69. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:45 AM

guys like Ryan theriot can post unbelievable offensive numbers helping carry an offense for a couple of series.

But would your faggot stats predict that?

70. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:46 AM

Depending on the media for good answers is out the door.  They are completely jaded from the Prior/Wood years of incorrect information.  So instead of independent views from player to player they just lump them all together.

it also helps that Lou seems more willing to rest starters if they have discomfort.  Baker never seemed to stand-up to his players and tell them to shut it down for a start or two.

If Z truly just needs a week or two off and comes back strong Dempster is next up for a skipped start.  Maybe even two because he’s racking up the innings this year and I fear he’s starting to wear-down.

71. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 10:57 AM

Furthermore, what are the odds a team is going to go through an entire season without an extended losing streak?

I think that’s part of what has given this team 100-win pace season while never truly seeming that dominant.

Pre-season, most thought (those w/ rational minds and statistical backing), this was about a 90-win team, give or take two games and you’re at 88-92 wins. If you add in the probable positive diversion from the expected in offense (Edmonds+Theriot+DeRosa+Soto > Edmonds’D’-Theriot’D’-Fukudome-Lee/RamirezPOWER) and you get another win or two. Rich Harden is probably worth 2 wins or so over either of the Seans for the second half of the year.

In my opinion, that makes this team a 94/95-win team. Give or take a couple wins and that puts them about 93-97 wins. Barring something incredible, that’s where they’ll end up.

(This is obviously all after-the-fact, and I’m not trying to show that I’m smart or anything. This is just how I’ve logically accepted this loss, and my justification to why this team has always “been” better than I felt it was. Most teams in this range will always seem streakier than the Cubs have.)

72. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 11:23 AM

I think you’re right on, tyger.  When we talked in the offseason, as you said, most of us thought high 80s, maybe low 90s.  As of now, this is probably a team that wins 96 or 97 games so they’ve actually overperformed any logical or rational outlook on this team.  You explained well how they did this and while it’s after the fact, it’s still important to note. 

This was never a 100 win team, especially when you consider how good the NL Central actually is this year.  It’s so cliche, but it’s true:  you’ve never as good as you are at your best and you’re never as bad as you are at your worst. 

The injuries are a legitimate concern, but if the team doesn’t figure out how to get past them, well, they just weren’t even as good as they’d played this year anyway.  Good teams play well through injuries.  Will the Cubs?

73. HORNY GOAT — Sep 04, 2008 @ 11:38 AM

This was never a 100 win team,

I always thought 88-92 and that would be good enough. It was all about the postseason. Nothing has changed. Just need to get hot during that stretch.

74. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 11:40 AM

Due to various reasons(perhaps the injury this year)  Furcal will not be a Type A or B FA. That’s according to the guy that broke the code behind Elias rankings.

75. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 11:50 AM

Great stuff guys, exactly why it is so hard to win 100, go 16-0 in Football, undefeated in college hoops, etc.. The highs and the lows usually even out in the end.

I’ll take the lows now, rather than next month.

76. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:01 PM

Your results:
You are Apocalypse

Apocalypse
72%
Dr. Doom
69%
Magneto
65%
Lex Luthor
64%
Mr. Freeze
62%
Venom
62%
The Joker
60%
Green Goblin
58%
Juggernaut
58%
Kingpin
54%
Dark Phoenix
53%
Catwoman
53%
Two-Face
50%
Riddler
44%
Mystique
38%
Poison Ivy
34%

You believe in survival of the fittest and you believe that you are the fittest.


Click here to take the “Which Super Villain am I?” quiz…

77. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:03 PM

That is AWESOME!!!!!

78. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:08 PM

I am Lex Luthor, runner up Mister freeze.

79. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:10 PM

I don’t get this deal with Rogge.  If he is going to eliminate baseball and softball because of Barry Bonds, then why aren’t they eliminating most of the sprints in track and field, most of the strength events such as weightlifting, shot put and discus, most of the swimming events, the biking events, the cross-country ski events and on and on and on and on.  He’s a goddamn fricking hypocrite.

There are two big names that he could have pulled out of his hat, Bonds or Clemens.  He said Bonds.  Big deal, who cares?  I didn’t even watch the damn Olympics.  This is the first that I heard about it.  Whoop-ti-do!  Would have been more acceptable if he had said Clemens instead?

It’s all horseshit anyway.  Why do you think they have testing at the Olympics if illegal and banned PED use hasn’t been a problem in many of their events for fucking decades? It probably predates the late 60’s and early 70’s when members of the East German women’s swim team could grow a thicker mustache than most men.

Why the hell didn’t Costas call him on any of this?!?  What it comes down to is that Rogge doesn’t like baseball or softball and he wanted them eliminated from the Olympics. He found a cheap and easy excuse, unfortunately or prejudicially named a black athlete as part of that excuse.  But the truth of the matter is that they have drug problems and cheating problems in almost every single Olympic sport.  So why single out baseball?  Good grief, Charlie Brown.

80. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:12 PM

I am Lex Luthor, runner up Mister freeze.

I’m still the fittest.

81. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:15 PM

By the way, I’ll give you an example of a scrappy black athlete.  Any of you guys remember when Norm Van Lier was teamed with Jerry Sloan in the backcourt of the Chicago Bulls?  He was every bit as scrappy as his white running mate.

82. Jame Gumb, editor-in-chief ® — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:25 PM

Oh boy am I going to have a surprise for you guys tomorrow…

83. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:41 PM

By the way, I’ll give you an example of a scrappy black athlete.  Any of you guys remember when Norm Van Lier was teamed with Jerry Sloan in the backcourt of the Chicago Bulls?  He was every bit as scrappy as his white running mate.

There’s one!

84. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 12:52 PM

The Cubs are going to have to make some some tough decisions soon, but they’ll be waiting for word from the doctors first. I don’t anticipate good news
Will Carroll

85. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 01:09 PM

Your results:
You are Dr. Doom

Dr. Doom
89%
Mr. Freeze
81%
The Joker
77%
Lex Luthor
76%
Apocalypse
75%
Riddler
74%
Juggernaut
69%
Poison Ivy
68%
Magneto
64%
Venom
61%
Catwoman
58%
Dark Phoenix
53%
Green Goblin
49%
Two-Face
49%
Kingpin
49%
Mystique
41%

Blessed with smarts and power but burdened by vanity.


Click here to take the Supervillain Personality Quiz

86. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 01:50 PM

Dr. Doom here too, Samael, although a lot lower percentages. And Lex Luthor and Apocalypse below that. I don’t understand how you can end up with Joker between Lex Luthor and Mr. Freeze.

I was sort of hoping the “are you trained as a lawyer” one would have driven my Two-Face percentage way up, but no luck.

87. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 02:37 PM

this site is reaching critical-dork-mass.

88. Harry Pavlidis — Sep 04, 2008 @ 02:38 PM

Watching the brewers/friars game.  Apparently, Super Ned has already declared no more days off for Prince.  Sure, that’s a fine thing to decide, and share with the player, but the declaration to the media is just setting yourself up for something later.

89. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 02:40 PM

I got Dr. Doom as well. Poison Ivy was in the middle of my list, because I agreed that I like plants, although I don’t think they were talking about weed.

90. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 02:42 PM

I probably would have gotten lex luthor if I was bald, or apocalypse if I was as much of a douchebag as ryno.

91. BellwetherMeltdown — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:03 PM

guys…

what does TWSS mean?

92. pmayo — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:13 PM

oog and Urk,

We’re def on the same page, and I’m going to expand on just those things in At least one, and maybe two more installments.

And, I am Dr. Doom, with Magneto a close second.

93. Harry Pavlidis — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:14 PM

At least I’m less catwoman than you guys.

Your results:
You are

Dr. Doom

Dr. Doom
43%
Magneto
40%
Apocalypse
40%
Poison Ivy
40%
Lex Luthor
38%
The Joker
33%
Mystique
32%
Green Goblin
32%
Mr. Freeze
29%
Dark Phoenix
27%
Catwoman
26%
Kingpin
25%
Juggernaut
24%
Riddler
23%
Venom
18%
Two-Face
8%

Blessed with smarts and power but burdened by vanity.


Click here to take the “Which Super Villain are you?” quiz…

94. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:23 PM

Douchepacalypse!

95. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:33 PM

guys…

what does TWSS mean?


LSA

96. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:34 PM

what does TWSS mean?

It stands for “That’s what she said”. It was originally an annoying, wankerish thing that the folks over at bcb liked to peer-bond with, but I started using it over here at the most nonsensical/inappropriate possible moments (usually responding to someone’s ulta-long rant, or to some form of non sequitur).

Apparently, that selfish/fiendish Jewstralopithecus Africanus, Señor Oog, appropriated my joke for himself.

97. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:36 PM

Steve Carell on The Office uses it best.

98. oog of ulam, Assistant Key Grip — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:53 PM

Apparently, that selfish/fiendish Jewstralopithecus Africanus, Señor Oog, appropriated my joke for himself.

+1

99. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 03:57 PM

Matt S (Chicago): Does Josh Vitters retain top 50 prospect status after a great second half of the year? I have to admit, I was already about to call him a bust in June.

Kevin Goldstein: Josh Vitters can RAKE. Totally RAKE. Love, love, love him.

100. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:10 PM

Brews losing 5-1 in the 6th, and their bullpen is already in the game, so SD will probably score at least 10 more runs.

101. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:17 PM

gonna need a whole new phrase for beating a dead horse soon.

102. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:25 PM

From Rob G’s whorehouse:

Submitted by blockhead25 on Thu, 09/04/2008 - 3:53pm.

another blog is suggesting that Z and teamates got into it a bit Tuesday Night after Zambrano called out Theriot for his error the other night. Wonder if there is any truth to that, and I wonder if maybe some lockerroom stuff is adding to the somewhat odd behavior.

This is the first I’ve heard of it but I didn’t catch any of the post game… Anyone know what this guy’s talking about?

103. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:28 PM

Will Carroll

That man is wrong about everything.  Seriously.  he’s not been right about one thing for 2 years.  Amazing.

104. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:32 PM

What blog is “suggesting” that?  If he took Theriot to task for an error, good for him.  Everybody on the team should be doing so.  If the team has a problem with it, then it’s their problem, not Zambrano’s.

105. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:40 PM

I skimmed through the comments over at Cub Reporter looking for some damn link or mention of where they got the shitty rumor from but I’ve found nothing.

As far as the error sounds like they’re referring to the quadruple fucking clutch on Pence which should have resulted in a mid-inning switch to Ronny Cedeno.

106. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:42 PM

It’s probably Northside Baseball.  They follow that site quite a bit from what I’ve gathered over there previously.  Since it’s probably from there it’s a good bet it’s nonsense.

107. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:46 PM

But nonsense at a price ‘dog, at a price!

BTW how’s Cinci treatin ya? Which games are you headed to this weekend?

108. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 04:48 PM

I’m catching all 3 games, Boomer.  Friday and Saturday night and Sunday afternoon.  We’re coming home after the game on Sunday.  It’s a really nice park.  I’ve been there several times before and there’s just not a bad seat in the house.  I like the Cubs chances against a reds team without Dunn or Jr.  no Edinson Volquez either so…

109. Maddog — Sep 04, 2008 @ 05:01 PM

Lead back to 5 games now.  Same as it was the day they completed the sweep of Milwaukee.

110. — Sep 04, 2008 @ 05:52 PM

Your results:
You are Apocalypse

Apocalypse
88%
Magneto
86%
Dark Phoenix
77%
Venom
70%
Mystique
69%
Dr. Doom
69%
Two-Face
69%