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People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

I can’t think of a title for this one

Posted by MB21 on 11/16/08 at 09:17 PM • 48 Comments

We’ve seen the reaction from many Cubs fans over the past week with regards to the Cubs not re-signing Kerry Wood.  I like Wood as much as anyone, but some of the reactions have been outrageous.  Not around here (no, Jack, this isn’t directed at you), but on places like BCB and commenters like Clute on GROTA or Dusty on WV23, it’s been humorous to say the least.  So it got me thinking.  Carlos Zambrano has thrown more innings and started more games in his career with the Cubs than Kerry Wood has, but why do I have a feeling that there wouldn’t be nearly as many complaints were the Cubs not to re-sign Zambrano last year or if they were to trade him this offseason?  What do you think?

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1. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:31 PM

if you feel like mocking a brewers fan, go here and read the comment thread.

(be nice to the proprietors. just pick on the commenter, if so inclined.)

2. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:33 PM

I like the guy who runs that site, WV.  There are some funny commenters there though.

3. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:33 PM

But Cub fans “KNOW” that Z is crazy and therefore is a bad person.  Just wait until Z’s arm falls off in the next year or two.  he’ll be called all sorts of fun names and will ask to be traded.

Of course Cub fans will hate Dunn because they believe they have a younger version of him in Hoffpauir.

4. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:35 PM

First, Baseball Digest Daily ranks Ben Sheets as the 3rd best closer.—some dude in that link WV posted

Why does BDD list Ben Sheets as a closer?

5. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:36 PM

Of course Cub fans will hate Dunn because they believe they have a younger version of him in Hoffpauir.

Yeah, and Gordon Whittenmyer is a younger version of Albert Einstein.

6. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:40 PM

I like the guy who runs that site, WV.  There are some funny commenters there though.

wisconsinites are, by and large, defined by the sum of their grievances against the state of illinois.

7. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:42 PM

Yeah, and Gordon Whittenmyer is a younger version of Albert Einstein.

Would Rogers or Sullivan be Stephen Hawking?  I’d go with sullivan considering the height factor.

I’m still not sure I understand why fans would rather pay a huge contract for Dempster rather than just go after Johnson for a year.  Dempster probably has a better chance at being the better pitcher of the two but even that slight edge might be eliminated by the difference in salary.  not that I’m against Dempster but all things considered it’s a tougher call now than had I been asked a month ago.

8. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:48 PM

In my opinion it’s a rather easy choice:  Randy Johnson for 1 year and $6-8 million is a far better investment than 4 years and $50 million for Dempster.  Not to mention Dempster supposedly turned that down and wants a lot more than that.  I’d rather have Johnson at the rate he’s looking for than Dempster for 3 years and $30 million.  Fewer years, less money, more draft picks. 

Honestly, this is a no-brainer.

9. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:49 PM

wisconsinites are, by and large, defined by the sum of their grievances against the state of illinois.

I love the fact that they can’t stop bitching about having to pay the tolls on the interstate.

10. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:52 PM

In my opinion it’s a rather easy choice:  Randy Johnson for 1 year and $6-8 million is a far better investment than 4 years and $50 million for Dempster.

they despise Johnson but drool over dumping the farm system for a guy with 60M+ plus left on his contract and had a few arm issues last year.  That makes sense.

This could turn out to be a great off-season if Hendry starts signing guys most fans hate and lets fan favorites like Dempster and Wood walk.

11. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:52 PM

I love the fact that they can’t stop bitching about having to pay the tolls on the interstate.

The damage that Prince Fielder is putting on the interstate is enormous.  It wasn’t meant to support that much weight.

12. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:52 PM

I love the fact that they can’t stop bitching about having to pay the tolls on the interstate.

there’s a simple way to fix that: stay the fuck home.

13. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:54 PM

they despise Johnson but drool over dumping the farm system for a guy with 60M+ plus left on his contract and had a few arm issues last year.  That makes sense.

Not to mention that Peavy will probably insist that 5th year be guaranteed so it’s really a lot of prospects for a guy who had injury issues and has a 5-year $80 million plus contract.

Once Randy Johnson became available there is no reason to continue talks with the Padres in my opinion.  There’s really not any reason to continue talks with Dempster either.

14. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 10:55 PM

there’s a simple way to fix that: stay the fuck home.

Dude, people from Wisconsin need their cheese.  They have to leave their homes.

15. vladimir (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 11:29 PM

Hey WV, that number that the guy was quoting you that Wood was supposedly asking for looks remarkably similar to the Cubs’ rumored starting offer to Dempster. I’d bet that’s where the number came from.

16. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 11:41 PM

I kinda wanted to follow up on my Derek Lowe comment earlier…

My saying I wonder why the Cubs haven’t kicked the tires on Lowe was made under the assumption that Lowe was considerably more affordable than Dempster. Is that not the case? I wasn’t sure based on the reaction to that comment if people thought I was underestimating how much Lowe is worth.

Could we not get Lowe offering only 3 years, and probably a tick under what Dempter’s AAS will be? If I’ve miscalculated this let me know.

17. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 11:53 PM

Good question Jack. I think he’s stated a preference for a 3-year deal but I’d have to look around.  not sure why the Cubs wouldn’t be interested.

18. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 16, 2008 @ 11:55 PM

I think the Zambrano question is an interesting one.I think you have to consider that while Zambrano maybe has reached levels that Wood couldn’t stay healthy enough to reach, but he wasn’t necessarily the child prodigy that the Cubs thought they had in Wood when he debuted in 1998.

We drafted Kerry, what—3rd overall? Not that Zambrano’s numbers weren’t good coming up too, but Kerry’s strikeout totals in the minors were downright staggering. On the other hand, you have to remember that the Cubs thought Juan Cruz was going to become what Big Z is today, and vice versa. So whereas much was expected from Wood from the get-go—especially after his 20 strikeout performance in like his 5th start of his career—Zambrano just gradually assumed his role as the true ace of the staff over the course of a few years.

Also keep in mind that while Zambrano only just signed his first big contract with the team, Kerry was in Chicago long enough to have at least a couple chances (I believe) to leave on his own. Instead of doing that, he stuck around and tried to redeem himself, which is something I think true Cub fans understand and appreciate. Whether or not his doing that was in his best interests, you have to at least admit that it was awfully refreshing to see a guy stay loyal to a team that had been extremely patient with.

Obviously, I’ve been making my case for why the Cubs should have hung on to Kerry a lot here lately. But even I would agree that there is some super-sentimental based complaining going on. At least in my case I can say I feel strongly about Keeping Wood more from a baseball perspective than anything else.

Here’s to hoping Perottos’ rumor is legit, and we end up managing to keep him around on a one-year deal.

19. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 12:08 AM

Here’s to hoping Perottos’ rumor is legit, and we end up managing to keep him around on a one-year deal.

If that happens it’ll be late in the off-season.  It’spossible but i think only if the Cubs manage to have money left-over after figuring out the rotation and RF.  I’d imagine he’d have to take a similar contract to 2008.

20. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 12:28 AM

Agreed JMan. If it works out that way it won’t happen for a long time.

I still really think the Cubs should try and solve their problems via the trade market en lieu of Free Agency. I feel like there are a number of reasonably priced, short commitment, left-handed bats that are available.

I know Yellon caught some flack for his suggestion that the Cubs should make a deal with Baltimore, but I actually agree that both Brian Roberts and Aubrey Huff are guys the Cubs should pursue.

I know that last year was basically Huff’s outlier season, but even accounting for regression, I think he stands a chance to at least match D-Lee’s production next season.

Would I be that far off if I described Huff as a cheaper, left-handed version of Derrek Lee? Does it not make a little bit of sense to at least explore moving Lee and his $13M ‘09 salary to make in order to make room for Huff?

Could Roberts be had in the same deal? Both guys are signed for just one-year and $8M. Would it really cost that much in terms of prospects to get a couple thirty-something infielders who are only signed for one year each?

21. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 03:53 AM

I know Yellon caught some flack for his suggestion that the Cubs should make a deal with Baltimore, but I actually agree that both Brian Roberts and Aubrey Huff are guys the Cubs should pursue.

No no no no no. Al thinks the Cubs should get Huff. Al thinks the Cubs don’t need Roberts.

22. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:01 AM

Also keep in mind that while Zambrano only just signed his first big contract with the team, Kerry was in Chicago long enough to have at least a couple chances (I believe) to leave on his own.

He had 3, but he signed a big contract before he could first become eligible for free agency like Zambrano did.  Wood signed for 3 years and $32.5 million plus a $13.5 million option for 2007.  Prior to 2004 he wasn’t eligible for free agency and the Cubs gave him what was a really good contract at the time.  He didn’t pitch but 4 games in the final year of that contract (2006) and re-signed with the Cubs for 1-year and $1.75 million for the 2007 season.  That’s a typical salary (actually a bit higher) for someone coming off of serious injuries so he really didn’t do the cubs any favors here.  After pitching in 22 games in 2007 he could have gone out and gotten a 2 year deal for around $10 million or so.  He re-signed with the Cubs for 1-year and $4.2 million, but made nearly $4 million in incentives this past season so he probably made more in one year with the Cubs than he would have made with any other team.

I have no doubt that Kerry Wood loves the Cubs and that fans appreciate that, but I think his loyalty is blown out of proportion.  Compare the first multi-year contract Wood got running from the 2004 through 2006 seasons with an option for 2006 to the one Zambrano signed in 2007.  Zambrano got a lot more money, but he would have gotten about $30 million more had he went to free agency and he signed that deal with only a 6 or 8 weeks left in the 2007 season whereas Wood signed his with a full year left. 

Zambrano took more of a discount at a time when there was less risk he would get injured before his big pay day to return to the Cubs. 

Yet every single time Zambrano has a few bad starts people call him a headcase, a waste of so much talent, a cancer to the team, and so on.

23. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:02 AM

Good question Jack. I think he’s stated a preference for a 3-year deal but I’d have to look around.  not sure why the Cubs wouldn’t be interested.

I don’t know if things have changed, but initially Lowe was looking for a 3-year deal as you said.  Paul Sullivan mentioned one time that the Cubs had some interest for what it’s worth.

24. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:18 AM

Not the same without Kerry Wood….

Tiny by donnajean on Nov 16, 2008 9:07 PM CST

This is so typical of chicago. They cut lose the players that the fans just love. I just don’t know how they can get rid of Kerry Wood.  He has been such a loyal and hardworking member of the cubs.  So many people will miss him.  It would be one thing if the trades made sense or produced results like a world series win, but no…....  I have never been so upset with a trade in my 40+ years of being a patient fan.  Wonder what Eddie Vedder is saying?—some silly BCB person’s diary

I wasn’t aware the Cubs traded Wood.  Who did they get in return?

25. kid_gloves (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:32 AM

Hendry is being such a nice dude to Wood.  Essentially making everything easier on him.  Hes going to get more money, more years, and the cubs fans get to think he never betrayed us because Hendry took the blame.

In some ways its admirable that Hendry did such a thing… but in other ways i wished he would milk woods loyalty for all its worth and lowball him to come back at like 6 mil for one year. :p

26. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:32 AM

Who did they get in return?

Sorrow.

27. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:34 AM

I don’t know if things have changed, but initially Lowe was looking for a 3-year deal as you said.  Paul Sullivan mentioned one time that the Cubs had some interest for what it’s worth.

I won’t be surprised of Lowe is signed. While he’s mentioned once, maybe more, to have interest in the Cubs and vice-versa he’d still be relatively under the radar.  He’ll more than likely cost less than Dempster as well.  I’d love to keep dempster but i worry about him sustaining his success as well as remaining healthy.

28. kid_gloves (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:37 AM

Im surprised people think Lowe will cost less than dempster.  Why would he?  He is a better pitcher and has been very consistent year to year, whereas dempster basically has 1 great year and a bunch of crapshoot years.

29. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:40 AM

Im surprised people think Lowe will cost less than dempster.  Why would he?

It’s pure speculation based on reports that he wasn’t looking for a long-term deal.  If he wanted I would assume he’d get a better deal. At the same time he’s not getting younger and teams might be leary of giving a guy a long-term deal that would stretch into his 40s.

30. kid_gloves (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:47 AM

Sure he would probably not get as long a deal, but I would think the yearly salary he’d get would be greater than Dempster… or at least it should.

31. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:50 AM

Wonder what Eddie Vedder is saying


Finally! We uncover the true standard that Hendry must reach with all his moves- What the opinion of a 40 year old alt rocker is.

32. kid_gloves (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:53 AM

I think you will find that every season that the cubs have had a song written for them they have not won a WS.  A frightening correlation.  The only option is to hold a ceremony where we explode Eddie Vedder to dispel the curse.

33. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 09:59 AM

I well and truly believe that a large swath of baseball fans does not understand the difference between trades, free agency and arbitration. Which would not bother me so much if they would at least go, “Yeah, that confuses me so I just sing ‘la-la-la’ whenever that comes up.”

But NOOOOOOOO. They want to argue the point.

34. kid_gloves (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:05 AM

But free agent signings are trades!  You trade money for the player.  :D

35. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:14 AM

I well and truly believe that a large swath of baseball fans does not understand the difference between their head and their ass.

Fixed.

37. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:25 AM

PM, Maddog.

38. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:26 AM

Finally! We uncover the true standard that Hendry must reach with all his moves- What the opinion of a 40 year old alt rocker is.

Did somebody really say what you quoted?  Seriously?

39. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:26 AM

PM, Maddog.

Dude, it’s AM.  Can’t you tell time?

40. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:27 AM

Dude, it’s AM.  Can’t you tell time?

It’s always PM somewhere.

41. Mercurial Outfielder (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:35 AM

It’s always PM somewhere.

False. Some places use the 24-Hour clock.

I agree with Colin that there’s a not insignificant portion of baseball fans that have no idea what goes between November and March, and fail to recognize how bargaining is done, how leverage is applied, and how arbitration, free agency, and trades are three seperate events.

42. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:36 AM

False. Some places use the 24-Hour clock.

Good for some places.

43. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:37 AM

I like the Jim Mora audio link, pmayo.  That was a classic press conference.

44. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 10:41 AM

BREAKING NEWS: (dying laughing) Agrees To Interview

Years of persistence have finally paid off, as (dying laughing) has agreed to let me “interview” him via email or his site.

For the next few days, I’ll be accepting questions from you, the readers of ACB, by PM or post. I’ll pose them all to (dying laughing) and post his responses here.

The bottom line is that I’m still a journalist, so I will ask the hard questions that no one else wants to ask, but I’m also not going to start a site war like the one that erupted during the 2007 season.

45. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 11:10 AM

But what would Eddie Vedder say about this stuff Ryno?

46. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 11:29 AM

Cuban just got charged with insider trading by the SEC. Wonder if that hurts his bid…prob. another ploy by Selig (or Al)

47. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 11:33 AM

I would say that eliminates Cuban once and for all.

48. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 17, 2008 @ 11:40 AM

new thread up.

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