...from the previous thread…

MD, I think we need to put together a “The Myth of Mark Derosa” article. This guy’s legend is growing by the minute.

While I agree that some of those comments about DeRosa are absurb in the context that they’re being used, I don’t think it’s far off to consider DeRosa one of the most valuable players of the 2008 team.  Whether you consider his role as the full-time 2nd baseman, or as a utility/temp at other positions he was certainly very valuable (keep in mind that Aaron Miles now gets the duties of sitting in for an injured Ramirez or Soriano or Lee or whomever), and you even argued that he had an unrepeatable year.

Just because he’s been traded doesn’t mean you have to justify the trade by undervaluing what he contributed to last year’s team.  I’m also not saying it was a bad trade, though I seem to be among the minority that thinks it will be if those prospects aren’t used to acquire Peavy.

I don’t think it’s far off to consider DeRosa one of the most valuable players of the 2008 team.  Whether you consider his role as the full-time 2nd baseman, or as a utility/temp at other positions he was certainly very valuable (keep in mind that Aaron Miles now gets the duties of sitting in for an injured Ramirez or Soriano or Lee or whomever), and you even argued that he had an unrepeatable year.

And we’ll mention that in the article. I’m not out to diminish what Derosa did, just to put it in context. I hope you realize that while we may be vitriolic around here, we can approach things rationally and analyze them objectively.

MLBTR has picked up the Levine story, as well.

I’m happy.  For the first time I can remember, I thought about what player I’d like my favorite team to acquire, and they did it.  In November, I started hoping the Cubs would get Milton Bradley, and they did.  Kick fucking ass yeah.  I’m happy.  Now I hope he has a great 3 years in Chicago and leads the Cubs to a WS or 2, because it seems like some Cub fans hate him.

because it seems like the majority of Cub fans and media hate him.

Fixed, and factual.

The comments over at MLBTR make BTI look like MENSA.

Would rather see:

That’s my prediction. My ideal would be:

Sorryano
Fontenot
AssRam
Bradley
Soto
Lee
Fukudome
Theriot’s corpse
P

Man, this sucks. I finally see the light about Bradley and then the Cubs immediately sign him.

There was some guy that the Cubs signed a couple years ago and many, many Cub fans hated the deal. If only I could remember his name….

Oh, wait

Man, this sucks. I finally see the light about Bradley and then the Cubs immediately sign him.

funny how that happened. still silence from Al.

If he stays healthy, we could possibly have two .900 OPS corner OFs!

still silence from Al.

He’s still sobbing. He still has to draw little red C’s on his klan gear, pick up an English-Ebonics dictionary and finish off San Diego Smooth Jazz Man before he posts.

Revealing my identity here

Yes! We have an active BCB poster to post our shit over there!

Yes! We have an active BCB poster to post our shit over there!

yurp.  I linked that comparison of Dunn/Bradley that MD did, and some even received it well.  Of course others ignored it.  Honestly, because its so infuriating, I don’t post that much over there.  Depends on whether or not i’m in the mood to wade through gallons of horse shit.

That ump baited him And the UMP was punished, not Bradley.

He’s a Cub now. Get on board or get out.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.
by Worf on Jan 5, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

dont ever tell me what to do you get out!!

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I’ve been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Jan 5, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

(dying laughing)

If the Peavy is dead, does Hendry pursue another pitcher now or wait until the trade deadline?

I still think there is a good chance that Brandon Webb will be on the trade block, either at the deadline or after the 2009 season. D-backs are broke and Webb is ticked off that they broke off contract talks but gave Haren a 3 year extention. The D-backs CEO just quit so that he could buy the rival Padres. One of the D-backs main advertizing sponsors went bankrupt.

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/11/06/brandon-webb-still-wants-that-extension/

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/2008/11/05/20081105spt-gmmeetings.html

You’ll be asked to link or post things there from time to time.

haha alrite.  I can see that I’ll be banned within the next week

If Brandon Webb is available, forget about Peavy. I think I just got a chubby just thinking about Brandon Webb pitching for the Cubs

Now we need to go get jeff kent and barry bonds too.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I’ve been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Jan 5, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I had hope for BCBers until I saw who posted it.

I can see that I’ll be banned within the next week

I have something in the works…

i’m all in favor of:

1) moving derosa for a bunch of prospects that help you get better and make trading more flexible

2) signing milton bradley

however…

1) derosa’s value isn’t that he’s such a great LF option, or RF option, or 2B option…it’s that you have 1 player that is very capable, that can be a full time player at any of those positions, and probably 3B or 1B as well.  And he’s better than our starting SS.  Derosa was insurance for bradley, for soriano, for even ramirez and lee.  Right now, if bradley, soriano, ramirez or lee goes out for the year you have….full-time status for fuku?  miles?  you have to make a move.  and that assumes fontenot holds up for a full year, which we have no evidence of him doing before - seeing as he is a mid-20s journeyman.  All I’m saying is, that was derosa’s value.  Someone could go down and your next move was finding a utility guy to replace his role, not a replacement for an all star corner.

(2) 3 for $30 - if the cubs are paying I’m fine with it…and it makes some sense given he’s better than ibanez and others…but I would like to know someday what the cover bid was there.  Was tampa really at 3/$27?  Washington at 2/$22?  Just doesn’t seem like there are a lot of 3/$30s getting thrown around these days.  wonder if they had any flex to tighten that up.  maybe they were just scared that he would kick the crap out of them.

So who is really…. ….going to play in RF?

Since we know Bradley will be out by the All Star game.

Miles? Pie? Hoffpair?

Wow. 30 Million in dead, unmovable salary for three years. Just damn.

Well, Abreu and Dunn better sign for 20 million a year now, or else Hendry looks like a sucker of the highest order.

This stinks – teased with Peavy, then we get Bradley shoved down our throats in another Hendry “blue light special.”

P.S. I’m taking names of all you Bradley apologist for my future BCB-version of a tagline when this deal blows up in the Cubs’ faces.

—I’m putting the over/under at 55 games for Bradley in 2009.
—I’m putting the over/under at 6 Million a year as the salary Hendry is going to have to eat WHEN – WHEN, not if – he dumps him.

Why couldn’t we just sign Jacques Jones again? Or Burnitz? Sheesh. Hendy and his damn projects and gambles………

Any hopes I had of a World Series just got severely wounded.

“Bite my shiny metal ass!”—Bender Bending Rodriguez

“Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead.”

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 5, 2009 3:43 PM CST reply   0 recs

this dude REALLY hates MB (dying laughing)

Well, I’m not happy about this.

  Too much money for too much of an injured player. Frankly, I’m astounded at the excitement shown here. When Gameboard spends half the year on the DL, what will you all say then?

  I’ll be happy to be wrong, but I fear the worst with him.

  “That’s my opinion and if you don’t like it, well, I have others.“ ~ Groucho Marx

  by Al on Jan 5, 2009 5:01 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Awwwww. Someone has had his little Hermida-loving heart broken. Poor fellow. I fear the strain was more than he could bear.

This is awesome. And the BCB lemmings are split. Mass banning time?

hahahahahahahaha. someone asked about the bradley/dunn comparison, so I linked it.  Then I got this response:

Thanks, although I think linking to that site might get you banned around here.

by aramis on Jan 5, 2009 5:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So I just got to the party after a day of learning about the blue force tracker. All I have to say is: tits.

You guys get all the cool toys. We didn’t even get plates for our flaks until two weeks before all us short-timers went home, and my SAW gunner still carried an ANPVS-4.

(dying laughing), when I was a freshman in college, an Army LTC came to talk to us and was all excited and such about taking the Baghdad airport in OIF I. And he laughed when he said they didn’t have enough body armor for everyone, and that the vehicles had little to no armor. He was fucking nuts. But yeah, the blue force tracker is pretty sweet. Nothing like looking at a battlefield like a video game for command and control.

Also, getting Bradley is big fat soft, yet firm titties. This is exciting.

  I’ll be happy to be wrong, but I fear the worst with him.

Prove me wrong, Milton.

And he laughed when he said they didn’t have enough body armor for everyone, and that the vehicles had little to no armor.

Yeah, that sound about right.

I love the Bradley deal. Even if he does it get hurt, it says oodles about how the focus of this team has changed.

How long until Al falls in line?

How long until Al falls in line?

By the time pitchers and catchers report, end of ST at the latest. He’ll say some bullshit about how he’s “gotten to see Bradley and he’s really turned around, and he’s a different player,” or whatever his lemmings need to hear to make them think he’s not a hypocrite.

How long until Al falls in line?

He began writing something 3 minutes after the signing was announced.  It will come soon enough.  Think about it, he’s gone from not wanting him at all to making a half-assed attempt to say why the team would sign him to now just saying that Milton will have to prove him wrong.  Proving Al wrong is not difficult.

but rather an obvious difference between the way the organization does business now and in the past.

I agree with that 100% md. In years past, players like Wood and DeRosa would have been kept just because they were fan faves. The fans may not like these moves, but one cannot question whether or not Jim Hendry is trying to win. These moves are made with one thing in mind. Winning.

Gone are the days when they won’t sign a player because of issues unrelated to hitting baseballs.

Aren’t the reasons they didn’t pursue Dunn unrelated to hitting baseballs?

He began writing something 3 minutes after the signing was announced.  It will come soon enough.  Think about it, he’s gone from not wanting him at all to making a half-assed attempt to say why the team would sign him to now just saying that Milton will have to prove him wrong.  Proving Al wrong is not difficult.

You forget that Al Yellon hates black people.

Aren’t the reasons they didn’t pursue Dunn unrelated to hitting baseballs?

True, he can’t judge, catch or throw baseballs.

just that all the Cubs got were three bad prospects

Um, no.

this is signing a for-real badass.

The number of people who can’t grasp this is just shocking to me.

There is a legitimate reason to be wary of Bradley because of his injury history. There is absolutely no reason to doubt him when he’s actually on the field. True talent level he’s one of the 10 or so best hitters in the game.

nevermind.

I was just talking to my boss about this. Lee, Ramirez, Soriano and Zambrano are really good, but not that “superstar” caliber. Harden and Bradley have that talent, they just don’t stay healthy. I don’t expect them to be healthy for a year, but if they are, you’re adding a Top-3 pitcher and Top-10/15 hitter.

This is about the post-season. Get those two guys on healthy and on their form come October, and you have a formidable team.

I don’t know how Zambrano isn’t a superstar…

Wouldn’t it be something if he actually stayed healthy for a season?

I don’t see why not.  Last year Edmonds surprised everyone by not sucking.  And Fukudome surprised everyone by providing enough suck for everyone who didn’t.  Harden stayed healthy (as far as everyone knows) and only missed starts as precaution (as far as everyone knows).  And it’s not even like Bradley is made of glass.  He’s had some issues with his left wrist, but also a lot of freak injuries that aren’t likely to recur.  Let’s just say I wouldn’t be surprised if he played 80 games, or if he played 140.

Odds are one of these years he might actually be healthy theVan. Why not this year?

In fact you could probably take that crazy Santo audio clip from last year (“This is the year!!!”) that they played every fucking day and apply it to Bradley’s health.  The marketing department is probably already working on it.

Twins owner Carl Pohlad has died. This could mean another MLB team will be for sale very soon.

I think this is the year that Santo finally loses it on air (moreso than normal) and says something that gets him fired.  Speaking of which, is Ty Wiggington still on the Astros?  I always get a kick out of Santo trying to prounounce his name.  Hopefully he stays in the central, or at least the NL.

I don’t know how Zambrano isn’t a superstar…

Because his last two years have made him no longer one of the fifteen best pitchers in baseball? The hit and strikeout totals are just awful, combined with nearly a 30 IP drop.

He’s still really, really good, and might turn it around, but he’s that excellent… for an entire year, that is

I know, I was being facetious.  Stirring the pot.  I’m your huckleberry.

e-mail, MD.

Is it wrong that I’m almost as excited about how many Cubs fans this will piss off as I am about the Cubs getting such a talented player?

If that’s wrong, I don’t want to be right.

he’s not dating your daughter or moving in next door. Since when did Cub fans care so much about good citizens?

I’ve been asking that question and I have yet to get an acceptable answer.  Al once told me that there is more to this game than winning.  Huh?  This game is about winning.  Period.  Nothing else.  Teams are spending millions of dollars for reasons other than winning.  Every team has one goal and one goal only—to win.  Every team makes decisions based on winning (not always the right ones, but still).  There is nothing about this game when it is on the field that has anything to do with anything else in the world.  You could tell me they have responsibilities to the city and charities and blah blah blah.  Fine.  If we’re going to make people do things that make them look good, I suppose that’s fine, but you don’t sign any player that you don’t think can help you win games.  Winning.  That’s it.  It’s always been about winning and it always will be.  The day it stops being about winning is the day the sport ends.

I’ve been asking that question and I have yet to get an acceptable answer.  Al once told me that there is more to this game than winning.  Huh?  This game is about winning.  Period.  Nothing else.

It’s because of people like Bob Costas, and that insufferable douchenozzle George F. Will that communicate this Platonic vision of baseball and give fans the idea that there’s some pure metaphysical content to it. When in reality it’s about a bunch of men doing anything and everything, legal and otherwise, to make as much money as they can. And the best way to make money is to win ballgames, either by talent or craft.

Is it wrong that I’m almost as excited about how many Cubs fans this will piss off as I am about the Cubs getting such a talented player? I just hope nobody does anything overtly racist, because Milton Bradley doesn’t seem like the Jacque Jones/Dusty Baker type who would take it with mild complaining.

Hoping the Cubs fans don’t do anything racist towards Bradley is about like hoping Theriot doesn’t make any stupid-ass outs on the bases in 2009.

Sometimes you have to use extreme examples to get people to understand what is really a simple concept.  For example, Milton Bradley in 1 game is better than me in 160 games.  For that matter, Ryan Theriot is better than me in 1 game than I am in 160.  I would be such an awful baseball player that I would give new definition to the word.  I’d probably bat .025/.025/.025.  There is no way I’m working a walk unless they intentionally walk me, and really, what would be the point?  I’d have a UZR of -375 at any position I played.  Having me on the team over 160 games is bad, bad news.  Having Milton Bradley and anyone not me play the other games is significantly better than having me for 160.  Even Al would agree with that.  But somehow he isn’t capable of understanding it when you apply it to real-life baseball.

Every time you read a thread on BCB, your genitals get smaller and less sensitive….

False.

e-mail, MD.

I just sent you a reply.

Yeah, and I’d love to see him flatten the first idiot who says/does something racist. I just don’t want him to face potential assault charges and miss time for doing a public service.

If that happens, I hope they give the guy an award. 

For some reason, I have a feeling Cubs fans are going to be a little more cautious with how they may treat Milton Bradley than they did Jack Jones and a few others.  People know Milton Bradley is fuckin nuts whereas Jones was one of the nicer guys around.  All I can say is if some idiot says something to him they get whatever comes to them.  If you’re going to talk shit to a man who is nuts then you better be ready for him to respond as a person who is just plain nuts.

Oh yeah, I saw some morons talking on the NSBB board recently about how Bradley wasn’t that good a hitter.  They cited his career 118 OPS+.  Do these clowns not realize the guy has played in an extreme pitcher’s park his entire career with the exception of the 2008 season?  And Texas is as friendly a park as Wrigley.

Don’t we assume that the middle of the order is Ramirez, Bradley, Lee?  When Fukudome plays RF it would be basically the same as last year (Soto moves up to 5th).

If the team puts Fontenot in the 2nd spot and follows him with Ramirez, Bradley, Lee, and Soto…that’s some ridiculous power from the 2-6 spots.  Maybe not home run power, but lots of bases and lots of RBI.  Then, add in Soriano.  Crazy!  How does a pitcher get through that?

Soriano—R
Fontenot—L
Ramirez—R
Bradley—S (mostly L)
Lee—R
Soto—R
Fukudome—L
Theriot—R

R-L-R-S-R-R-L-R-pitcher

The Cubs have 4 pitchers who bat lefty (Zambrano switches, Marshall, Lilly, Harden). 

That’s not just balance, that’s some impressive power at the top of the order and then some OBP guys in the 7th and 8th spots for the pitchers to move over or, in Zambrano’s case, to knock in with home runs.

Even if they did, they’d ignore it. Cub fans will hate this guy because he’s good, and vocal, and black, and probably a lot of other reasons

The other reasons being that he’s not Adam Dunn.  Lots of Cub fans wanted Dunn over Bradley, and they’re stubborn enough to dislike Bradley for that reason alone.  I would’ve liked Dunn to be a Cub, but not any more (or less) than I wanted Bradley to be a Cub.  Both are great players, and any arguments or comparisons between the two are moot points because they each do certain things better than the other (Dunn just happens to do a few things worse).  It would’ve been fun to watch Dunn hit the ball to Milwaukee like he tends to do in Wrigley.

The other reasons being that he’s not Adam Dunn.  Lots of Cub fans wanted Dunn over Bradley, and they’re stubborn enough to dislike Bradley for that reason alone.  I would’ve liked Dunn to be a Cub, but not any more (or less) than I wanted Bradley to be a Cub.  Both are great players, and any arguments or comparisons between the two are moot points because they each do certain things better than the other (Dunn just happens to do a few things worse).  It would’ve been fun to watch Dunn hit the ball to Milwaukee like he tends to do in Wrigley.

That’s probably true, as well. I’m hearing rumors that Dunn may end up in SF.

If the team puts Fontenot in the 2nd spot and follows him with Ramirez, Bradley, Lee, and Soto…that’s some ridiculous power from the 2-6 spots.  Maybe not home run power, but lots of bases and lots of RBI.  Then, add in Soriano.  Crazy!  How does a pitcher get through that?

If there was ever a time for Soriano to consider not batting lead off, this year would be it.  There’s going to be some serious run potential for the heart of the order to clean up.  Even Theriot with his .400 OBP would work in the leadoff as long as he didn’t do something stupid once he got to first base.

Even Theriot with his .400 OBP would work in the leadoff as long as he didn’t do something stupid once he got to first base.

Lou made a point of saying that was out of the question a week or so ago.  Theriot will bat 2 or 8, depending on matchups.

Theriot will bat 2 or 8, depending on matchups.

As long as he’s not hitting in front of Lee.  Ever.  That resulted in way too many inning ending double plays.  Almost a record setting amount.  In fact, let’s just not talk about it.

As long as he’s not hitting in front of Lee.  Ever.  That resulted in way too many inning ending double plays.  Almost a record setting amount.

I’d really like to see Lee dropped to fifth, largely for this reason.

I’d really like to see Lee dropped to fifth, largely for this reason.

I’d like to see him dropped to a different team for someone better.  I realize his stats say he’s not that bad, and still above average, but I can only watch the same thing so many times before I’d rather watch something different.  Maybe it’s ADHD…or a tumor.

I’d like to see Lee get more off days. He’s too old to be playing 155+games a year. Especially with bradley on the team, Lee needs to see the bench much more frequently than he has previously in his career this year.

Cubs prospective owner could be chosen in 7-10 days with a weird caveat that the Trib could pull the club off the market altogether.

NEW THREAD UP, thanks to JMan!

  That’s a good point, too. Some of his new teammates, who have been here longer, have to sit down with him and have a talk so that maybe they can head that off.

  Dempster would be my first choice to do that.

  “That’s my opinion and if you don’t like it, well, I have others.“ ~ Groucho Marx

  by Al on Jan 5, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply   0 recs

gm was correct; these people, for whom Al is the flag bearer, live in a fantasy world.