It is certainly interesting, the timing. I’m pretty ignorant on the whole Wall Street/trading stuff, but it took them four years to figure all this out?

Maybe that’s why the economy is so bad.

Any banker people willing to share insight?

it’ll be interesting to see how MLB/Cuban respond.  There is no way he didn’t know this was coming and thus I would think he’d have full disclosure to MLB. if MLB claims this as surprising it’s BS and they are using this as leverage to eliminate him as a potential suitor.

Ricketts is gonna own this club.

They just compared Cuban to Stewart and think he’s going to do jail time.  ummm, stewart went to jail because she lied.  Cuban would have to pay a fine.

Who made that comparison?

I’d guess the morality police at BCB.

I’d guess the morality police at BCB.

DING DING DING. not unexpected. They are talking about how he can sign players and do interviews from jail.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

Try $4.28 trillion dollars. That’s $4,284,500,000,000 and more than what was spent on WW II, if adjusted for inflation, based on our computations from a variety of estimates and sources*.

Not that any of that wasn’t expected….

What I wonder with all of this is how involved George W. Bush is.  It’s no secret that Bush wants to be commissioner and many thought it might happen as early as 2009 before Selig’s contract was extended.  There is no doubt whatsoever that Selig pulled some strings here.  The only question is whether or not he convinced Bush his chances of gaining approval to be commissioner would be significantly better if he did this favor for him.

What I wonder with all of this is how involved George W. Bush is.  It’s no secret that Bush wants to be commissioner and many thought it might happen as early as 2009 before Selig’s contract was extended.  There is no doubt whatsoever that Selig pulled some strings here.  The only question is whether or not he convinced Bush his chances of gaining approval to be commissioner would be significantly better if he did this favor for him.

they can’t stand each other.

Jake Peavy was in Puerto Rico last week with Hoffman, Young and several other ballplayer friends, including the Brewers’ Ryan Braun and the Yankees’ Derek Jeter. Another friend called Peavy to ask if he had heard that Peavy soon might be dealt to the Braves.

Peavy’s response left one person present to conclude that Peavy, whose consent is needed for a trade, will not be going to Atlanta anytime soon, even if the Padres and Braves were to agree to a trade. “I think he wants to go to Chicago,” the friend said.

Former Cubs stars Rick Sutcliffe and Mark Grace are friends of Peavy who speak fondly of their experiences with the Cubs.
—sandiegoonline

Apparently this is pretty close to a rumore an NSBSer posted.

Nice. I hope for more losses and a higher pick and they win. Jerks.

Selig and Bush?

yes.

Aren’t Z and Cruz good friends? I wonder if he could sway him to return to the Cubs as a reliever.

Furcal’s agent says the 4/40M deal is in the ballpark of what they are asking.

Yeah, but that doesn’t include the per diem on liquor and the clause that mandates the team will pry off the car breathalyzer.

Giants signed Affeldt.

I didn’t know you had a dog, Maddog.

So Zell is still hell-bent on selling the Cubs before year-end. 

I didn’t know you liked Thriller, Maddog

Nice prank

Maddog, you’ll appreciate this

...but more out-of-the-box.

very true.  The problem is that the Cubs have said they want a lefty bat. I could see the Cubs taking Vazquez over Dye, however. 

That’s still a crapload of salary going to the Cubs in either scenario.

And Dye would be a very out-of-the-box solution.

it would vindicate Al’s desired solution to RF.

Not 2007 Al’s, though.

Jermaine thought Al was better than his opinion in 2007 and challenged AL to prove him wrong.

Awesome…out of context

Yeah… I do not for the life of me get the Jermaine Dye suggestion. I mean, he really does not address any of this team’s needs. Sure the guy plays RF, but he swings from the wrong side of plate, and isn’t particularly good in the field.

I still think DeRosa would be a suitable option for right if the Cubs go after Brian Roberts, which I really hope they do. But if they do decide to go after a free agent, I think Abreu makes a good deal of sense. Joe Sheehan wrote a little something about him over at BP today—makes a pretty good case for an NL team to request his services.

I think that Pujols had a very very good year, but he wasn’t even the MVP of the Cards…
I think Ludwick & Loshe were probably more of the reason that the Cards were competitive most of the year for the division title. I think maybe the MVP should have gone to Howard.

Jimmyeatworld
by Jimmyeatworld on Nov 17, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply   0 recs

Here you go, Maddog, it could be that Bud Selig didn’t turn the SEC loose on Cuban, but rather that he got sued because he financed a movie that accused President Bush of being responsible for 9/11: http://norris.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/insider-trading-or-political-persecution/

Anyone who voted Pujols 7th in the MVP should be eliminated from the gene pool.  In fact, anybody that voted him for anything less than 1st should also be eliminated from the gene pool.

Sign Furcal, Johnson for 1 year at $8 million and get a right fielder, call it an offseason.

That might be a little too in-the-box…

Kwa…Ki…Sur…Pee…Nee…Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Nov 17, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply   0 recs

Pujols is penalized for being perennially the-greatest-player-ever-at-age-XX.

PUJOLS 7TH?  Pujols was the seventh best player in the league when he was in AAA. Now he is transcendent. Only A-Rod is even in the same stratosphere. Anyone who can’t see this should be banned from watching baseball and forced to join a competitive scrotum kicking league so that their seed is wiped from the earth.

I am completely flummoxed with the thought that people here think Bud Selig…the bud selig that presided over a tied all star game…the bud selig that thought it was a good idea not to tell anyone what the rules for the world series were…that guy…scheemed, and moreover has some kind of actual influence over, a government agency…the Internal Revenue Service no less!

Like Bud has some kind of string he can pull to get after cuban?  Oh and by the way you are also implicating the president of the united states in this conspiracy you have uncovered?  Really?

Cuban is being charged with selling shares that he publicly announced he was selling, after he publicly announced he wasn’t allowed to sell the shares, then the stock fell 15% more.  The IRS has plenty of ammo here, rightly or wrongly, to make a case…without the presence and influence of the governmental big bud selig, and his cohort in crime, the president.

dbrown…while this might not be a conspiracy between bush and selig it certainly is strange that it has take this many years tocome to fruition.  If one believes the story from the link vladimir posted it very well could be Bush’s going away “present” for Cuban knowing full-well that it would probably hurt his chances at buying the Cubs. Granted that could change if Cuban is the only one coming close to 1B in his bid but at the same time MLB can’t afford any additional bad PR by the public questioning why they would sell to a guy that is involved in Insider Trading.

How about this. Maybe Cuban got nabbed because he’s guilty?

W gets accused of being too dumb to remember his name by most (rightfully so in many cases), yet the same people have no problem crediting him with all of these elaborate schemes and ripoffs.

It’s not that uncommon for people to get jacked up for crimes they committed years ago. Sometimes it takes that long to 1) get the evidence needed for a conviction 2) watch them to see if they are still commiting similar crimes, for which more counts can be added. 3) watch them to see if more people are envolved.

The Feds have known about Barry Bonds since at least 2001, yet here he is a free man for now, 7 years later.

Cuban hasn’t been “nabbed” for anything.  It is my understanding he isn’t even being charged criminally.  This administration has a history of firing federal prosecutors that wouldn’t go after political rivals.  It’s not so far fetched to think the Bush Administration might want to settle a score with Cuban.  Ask Valerie Plame.

so that he can’t even bid?

Where did someone say Cuban can’t bid?  Of course he can bid.  He just isn’t going to get MLB approval because owners would rather pay Sabathia $140 million rather than $200 million.

All I did was merely suggest there was involvement at the executive level of our government.  I made no claims that it was in fact what happened or even that I believed that is what happened.  Vlad then provided a link that at least provides something additional to discuss.  I understand it can take years to bring charges against someone in a case like this, but it is at least interesting as far as the timing goes. 

WV said the two hate each other and I trust him, but sometimes 2 people who hate each work together.  It’s a possibility.  Probably not what most likely happened and I never said it was.

And I’ve already heard rumblings today that MLB is none too happy with the Yankees’ apparent all-out approach to this offseason.  Like I said above, the last thing Selig and the owner’s cabal want is another Steinbrenner.

Exactly.  And I’ve yet to read any evidence that other franchises value are in some way tied to the value that one of the most high profile team in sports gets.  I find it hard to believe that the value of the Kansas City Royals will increase due to the Cubs selling for, say, $1.2 billion.  Franchises like the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox and probably even the Cardinals and Astros and maybe a few other teams would see their value increase some, but I don’t think it would be a league wide increase.

Doug Melvin was complaining that the Yankees would bid $140 mill for CC when the offer they were out-bidding was $100.  I would imagine Selig is thinking the same thing.

I imagine a team like the Yankees have done their research and found a number that they were sure would convince Sabathia to come back to the AL and an east coast team.  I don’t have a problem with their offer.  A team as successful as that franchise doesn’t do that many stupid things so I’d bet they found out what a team like the Angels were going to offer and the Yankees then offered Sabathia 10% more.  I think it’s unfair to say the Yankees outbid the Brewers by $40 million.  We all knew there would be at least 5 or 6 teams that would out-bid that offer by the Brewers so the Yankees didn’t outbid the Brewers.  They outbid a figure I’m sure the Yankees were aware of.

Really, no GM has the right to complain about any bid put against theirs.  Selig has made remarks in the past about teams paying free agents significantly more than what other teams had bid.  I remember him complaining about the Cubs paying Marquis and Lilly too much.

I recall some remarks from Selig about the Soriano signing too.  It was later learned the Cubs offered $20-some million more than the Angels did.  I figure MLB owners can offer up whatever the hell they want to.  It’s not Selig’s business and it sure as hell isn’t the business of some other GM who is crying about his own pathetic offer.

While i disagree with why owners don’t want him around, that isn’t my point.  A cuban bidding with federal charges pending and one without are 2 completey different animals, the former is irrelevant.  it’s nuts to think owners don’t want him in the bidding process, and gettin’ into cahoots with the IRS and el presidente effectively takes him out.  I wonder if selig is camped out in a bunker on the grassy knoll with lee harvey above.

cuban for all intents and purposes being out of the bidding is a worst case scenario for the cubs bidding process, and for baseball team valuations.  One of the primary metrics of how businesses get valued is through comparable transactions.  there are only a handful of sports team deals a decade, if that.  If the cubs sell for $800 instead of $1.2bn (arbitrary numbers, but you get the point), there is a direct impact on the mark-to-market value of every franchise in baseball.  some more than others, but absolutey a direct impact - and a big one.  If you can get that value benefit by keeping the stalking horse alive to drive up the bids, you do it and vote him out later, You don’t call up the president to invalidate him a year ahead of a deal.

Maddog - you said “there is no doubt whatsoever that selig pulled some strings here.”  First off Bud Selig doesn’t have federal strings.  secondly, he would be an idiot to do it and all 30 owners should fire him for cutting out the guy bidding up the price.

Dear Bud Selig:

That is all.

all 30 owners should fire him for cutting out the guy bidding up the price.

Oh, would that such a blessed event should occur.

Maddog - you said “there is no doubt whatsoever that selig pulled some strings here.”  First off Bud Selig doesn’t have federal strings.  secondly, he would be an idiot to do it and all 30 owners should fire him for cutting out the guy bidding up the price.

Once again, the highest bid isn’t going to have an impact.  It’s the cost at which they are sold and whether Cuban bids more than anyone else is irrelevant because he won’t get MLB approval to buy the team.  The only reason Cuban is bidding, as many have suspected, is to force other bidders to offer more than they would have otherwise and the financial situation kind of ruins all of that.

I actually just posted my link because I thought it was interesting in light of Maddog’s theory, not because I really believe it or Maddog’s theory. I think the odds are that neither of those motives is actually the case.

But dbrown, you do hurt your credibility a little when you confuse the IRS with the SEC. The Securities Exchange Commission enforces federal law regarding securities, and regulates US stock exchanges. They’re suing Cuban civilly for an alleged violation of insider-trading laws, and seeking to levy a fine on him. At this point it’s not a criminal matter.

I doubt it’s the only reason as well, but more than a couple people (reputable sources) have suggested that Zell asked Cuban to do him a favor.  I’m sure Cuban thinks that with the money he has he can somehow get the approval.  It’s probably an ignorant thought by him, but it’s coming from someone who hasn’t made that much money by easily taking “no” for an answer.

Maddog - you said “there is no doubt whatsoever that selig pulled some strings here.”  First off Bud Selig doesn’t have federal strings.  secondly, he would be an idiot to do it and all 30 owners should fire him for cutting out the guy bidding up the price.

bud doesn’t have them (to speak of) on the gop side. on the dem side? they are considerable. his chief lobbyist is married to sen. conrad of north dakota (dem).

bud doesn’t have them (to speak of) on the gop side. on the dem side? they are considerable. his chief lobbyist is married to sen. conrad of north dakota (dem).

Is Selig that despised by the GOP?

yep, that about sums it up

Hendry has some leverage.  Sounds like he’s leading Towers into/through a three or four team deal.

It’s not often you learn that Hendry really is the only one standing in the room. It’ll be interesting to see how he handles as this seems to be his specialty. A fairly big blockbuster could happen with Hendry getting Peavy and additional pieces to fill-in RF and bullpen.

Here’s a scenario:

Dodgers get:
Greene
Vazquez

White Sox:
A. Jones
Wuertz
Fontenot/DeRosa
cash
Padres get:
Cedeno,
Pie,
Veal,
B. Jenks
Marshall

Cubs get:
peavy,
Ethier

It’s not the greatest deal and the Sox/Dodgers might not be getting fair value back either.

If that’s true, Hendry should just wait Towers out and then give him next to nothing for Peavy.

that won’t exactly happen.  If you get completely fleeced by another GM I would think that hurts future discussions no matter what the circumstances are surrounding the previous trade.  it sounds childish and stupid but I know I have read in several places GM’s taking this stance and nowadays many want everyone to be happy.

he won’t get fair-market value because he’s basically squeezed but he won’t get rolled over either.

meant the sec, got confused for a second with bonds.

my point is that cuban bidding with an sec investigation doesn’t drive the price up.  a clean cuban is a legitimate, albeit unlikely bid.

by the way, don’t take this as a defense of selig.  the guy is a complete idiot.  people that defend him say the game has grown under him.  that’s like saying colege football has never been more popular so who needs a playoff.

So if Cuban bid $1.2 billion, but Zell accepted $700 million what’s it matter what Cuban bid?

But that won’t happen Zell is in a pinch to take top dollar and that is exactly what he will do. If the MLB owners shoot the bidder down there will be a lawsuit and MLB will lose their antitrust exemption count on it.

Zell is in a pinch to get dollars, Cone.

Thus he wants the highest bidder and not the person hand picked by the members of the country club. We’re talking a difference of a couple hundred million here and I guarantee Zell wants that money whether MLB owners agree or not. The Feds have already spoke out against the antitrust exemption I’m sure this would only garner support to break it. This is a business and not a country club and the owner should be able to sell to whomever he wants and not to who the other owners see fit. Zell’s payment is due in June I believe and he needs every penny he can get.

Also, Cone, do you really think Congress is going to pass new legislation getting rid of the antitrust exemption?  That would be almost impossible to do.  Especially on the timeline that Sam Zell needs.  I doubt he even considers Cuban’s bid, if Cuban even bids.

I do think in this economic environment zell will have more leverage than he would otherwise re: legitimizing the top dollar bid.  his company is in trouble, and they need to raise capital.  selig and the owners can reject and posture all they want, but when zell goes public with the fact that every $100mm he can’t take means 1000-2000 more people fired…with a chicagoan in the oval office (albeit a sox fan)...i don’t know.

but i do think cuban having SEC charges against him changes the landscape, and potentially illegitimizes his bid.  if it’s just a fine though, that would be a tough argument for mlb to make as they directly lead to the firing of people over a misdemeanor.

So, I guess what I’m saying is, there IS incentive for owners to illegitimize cuban now, before the bidding gets going.  However, it is an awfully expensive decision to make as it has a significant mark-to-market impact on their own assets.

...that he will use the yankees bid to either get the brewers to 5 years or the total $ higher, or both.  That benefits sabathia.  That benefits future free agents everywhere.

Yes, I agree with that and now I know what you’ve been saying, but let’s say the Brewers don’t offer more and he still really wants to re-sign and does.  Now let’s say that MLB owners simply won’t approve Cuban and Selig and company don’t have to tell Ricketts to improve his offer and Zell sells to Ricketts at $750 million.  Cuban’s involvement accomplished nothing for the other 29 franchises. 

Also, I think you underestimate how owners are looking at the short-terms and not the long-term.  There is obviously a long-term benefit for them to have Cuban buy the Cubs at an obscene price, but the short-term benefit is for them to not approve of Cuban.