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People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

Must win game?

Posted by MB21 on 06/19/08 at 07:42 AM • 58 Comments

One thing Cubs fans are always good for is never ending entertainment.  We’re often delusional, rarely rational, and we have a tendency to dwell on the bad things.  I include myself in all of that as I am a Cubs fan and I’m also delusional and irrational at times and definitely dwell on the negative things.  Not right now though.


I’ve seen more than one place this morning Cubs fans talking about tonight’s game as if it is a must win game.  It would certainly be nice to come back and salvage the final game of this series, even up the current road trip, and maybe more importantly win right after losing Zambrano for what appears to be at least a start or two and perhaps much longer.  But is this really a must win game?  Of course not.

The Cubs have a 3.5 game lead over the Cardinals who have lost more players to injuries recently than the Cubs have.  They’re yet to lose 3 in a row and we all know the team isn’t going to go all season without losing 3 straight games.  It’s going to happen eventually.  Maye tonight. 

All I really know is that no game in the 3rd week of June is a must win game no matter how often we hear such things.  That’s especially true when you have a 3.5 game cushion in the division, are on the road, and managed to sneak out a series win earlier in the week up in Toronto. 

The Rays are a good team.  They have a very solid rotation and an excellent bullpen.  They play great defense and have enough offense to get the job done.  The media keeps referring to the Rays as a “surprise” team in 2008, but nearly every single projection system projected the Rays to win between 85 and 92 games.  It’s no surprise at all that they’re as good as they are. 

The Cubs may lose tonight.  They may win.  One game counts as much as any other game and this game, other than the boost the players may get by winning it, is no more important than yesterday’s game or last Tuesday’s game. 

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COMMENTS
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1. oog of ulams (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:56 AM

ZOMG We’re doomed! Must winz111

2. oog of ulams (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:56 AM

delete

3. MB21 (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:05 AM

delete

That’s a good point, oog.  I agree.

4. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:13 AM

Maybe this guy needs a promotion more.

5. oog of ulams (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:15 AM

That’s a good point, oog

That is the worst thing anyone has every said to me.

6. MB21 (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:15 AM

Maybe this guy needs a promotion more.

Isn’t the issue with a lot of the guys in the DSL that they don’t have green cards yet?

7. MB21 (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:15 AM

That is the worst thing anyone has every said to me.

Nobody has ever told you that you look tired?

8. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:20 AM

Or maybe this guy does.

9. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:20 AM

The Rays also hold the 3rd best Home record in the league. If they win tonight they will have gone .500 on a road trip that saw them go from Chicago to Toronto to Cooperstown to Tampa Bay.

10. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:21 AM

Nobody has ever told you that you look tired?

That’s the worst thing that’s been posted on this site. I know who you are.

11. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:22 AM

Isn’t the issue with a lot of the guys in the DSL that they don’t have green cards yet?

Could be. They need to get these guys green cards, because there are some kids doing good things there. I’m also interested to see how Larry Suarez recovers from TJS.

12. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:26 AM

Another reason that tonight isn’t a big deal is that the cubs haven’t really done anything the last 2 games and still almost pulled both out against the 2nd or 3rd best home team in all of baseball.

They are getting nothing from their best hitters with runners on, their ace gave up 5 by the 3rd inning and had to leave a game early.  And 3 of their best players (Marmol, Wood and Soriano) haven’t even played.

And oh by the way, they haven’t even given any ground to the cardinals in their 2 game “debacle”

I do think it matters “how” they lose games, not just “if” they lose games…

13. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:31 AM

And 3 of their best players (Marmol, Wood and Soriano) haven’t even played.

That’s 3 full days of rest for marmol and Wood.  they will be pitching tonight no matter what.

14. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:32 AM

Awesome. I just read this in this week’s SI: Apparently CIN players have pulled many pranks on Jay Bruce. My favorite is Adam Dunn’s. Before a game against NYY, Dunn told Bruce that ARod and Jeter had requested signed baseballs. Bruce thought it was weird but sent each of them a ball signed ‘To Derek/To Alex, Signed Jay Bruce’. I wish I could have seen the looks on all three of their faces.

15. BellwetherMeltdown (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:39 AM

Good lord, it’s baseball, there’s 162 games, and the Cubs are in 1st place. If you think ANY game is a must win game you need get off the roller coaster.

Zambrano situation is very serious, but losing two in a row on the road to a very good team is just part of the the general ebb and flow of the season. You’d think people have never watched a full season of baseball before.

16. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:39 AM

JefF7 today: 7 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 K, 3 BB, 10 GO-8 FO

A couple of those hits were ground balls with eyes and a few of those fly outs were pop outs.

17. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:06 AM

ryno, why do you love Jeff F7 so much?

he seems like such a meh prospect to get behind so much

18. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:08 AM

brews well on their way to winning again

could be 5 games back by the end of tonight

19. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:17 AM

ryno, why do you love Jeff F7 so much?

I think he has the most potential of any pitcher in our system. Mid- to high-90s sinking fastball, potential plus slider and a decent splitter and he strikes me as a “big game” pitcher after playing in front of large crowds and on national TV. If he can improve his command and hone his pitches, I think he’s a frontline starter.

20. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:23 AM

i guess my issue is that so far with Jeff is been all talk about his “stuff” ect ect without seeing results you would expect from somebody with frontline starter talent

If he had a different name we wouldnt be talking about this guy

21. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:24 AM

Prince Fielder just hit his 2nd inside the park homerun

22. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:30 AM

all talk about his “stuff” ect ect without seeing results you would expect from somebody with frontline starter talent

CHC considered (maybe they still consider) him to be raw. They’re going to give him every chance to succeed, and they’re going to do their best to make sure he does. I don’t know if the reports of him having to work on pitches in games are true, but I do know he’s shown flashes of the pitcher he can be.

I know most Cub fans don’t like him, but I just see something in him. I’ve read a ton of bad shit about him from Cub fans that have never seen him and I know that none of it will change my mind, not that I think you were trying to, dj.

23. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:32 AM

no, cheer for him by all means, it would be very nice to find a good sinkerballer to pitch for the team. my only issue is that result wise we havent seen much from him yet

24. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:38 AM

we havent seen much from him yet

I agree. Someone with his repertoire should be getting better results. That leads me to believe he’s either still learning to pitch or that the organization is saying, “Throw more sliders and splitters so you can learn to command them.” The fact that he was promoted from Daytona to Tennessee with such shitty numbers makes me think it’s the latter.

25. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:42 AM

either that or they just want to promote him so they dont have to explain why the 10 mill man is in A ball sucking.

His last start looks good though

in other news Wild Dick Hill starts tonight

26. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:46 AM

they dont have to explain why the 10 mill man is in A ball sucking.

What is he sucking in a ball?

27. ccd (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 10:24 AM

this from Sullivan:

Zambrano was examined by Cubs orthopoedist Stephen Gryzlo on Thursday in Chicago, and was scheduled to have an MRI on his shoulder on Friday, sources said. Zambrano said after Wednesday’s game he hoped the problem was just tendinitis, in which case he could rest for a start or two while taking anti-inflammatories to reduce the swelling.

The Cubs had no update on Zambrano as of late Thursday afternoon in St. Pete. They’re likely to wait for the results of Zambrano’s MRI before making an announcement, so the news may have to wait until Saturday.

Zambrano is next scheduled to pitch on Tuesday against Baltimore are Wrigley Field, though that start appears to be out of the question at this point.

28. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 10:37 AM

Some DSL players are waiting on a green card, but some of them aren’t considered ‘mature’ enough to leave home and the structure it provides.  Without actually being there, it’s tough to judge which players are which, but I’d guess the former in most cases.  Either way, quite a few of the DSL pitchers are doing really well, and I’d hope that several of them make their way to the states before the end of the season.

29. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 10:55 AM

Interesting trend:
Jake Fox has walked 22 times ( 1 IBB) in 160 PA with Tennessee this season.  This is pretty much double his career walk rates.  If he’s somehow learned to take a walk, then his status may rise to future 4-corners man.  Power like his is hard to find.

He was terrible with Iowa earlier this season, and he is 25, but even with all that against him, if he learns to walk 12% of the time to go with his .150+ IsoP, he’s actually got a long-term future in the bigs.  At least that’s my guess.

30. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 10:59 AM

This is a big dude.  Maybe their fast-tracking him and hoping he scares people, because he started the season @ Daytona and is now pitching @ Iowa.

31. vladimir (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:19 AM

From the Trib’s comments:

Carlos Zambrano is not injured. That’s his excuse for everything when he gets butt whipped. All the guy does is pout and scream when he gets hit hard. He will NEVER win 20 games in a season. NEVER. He’s not the # 1 starter this season either. No that goes to Ryan Dempster who’s handling his role as a starter as a Professional. Zambrano is a big baby. Grow up and act like a Professional and not like a PSYCHO.

32. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:24 AM

This is a big dude.

Jesus Estrada, he’s big!

33. MB21 (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:29 AM

so they dont have to explain why the 10 mill man is in A ball sucking.

The problem with that reasoning is that 99.9% of Cubs fans don’t have the foggiest clue who Samardzija is, which year he was drafted, or if he was signed out of the Dominican Republic or Asia, and haven’t any idea how much money he signed for. 

If the Cubs are making organizational decisions to try to throw off the 0.1% who do know, they need a new strategy. 

Furthermore, 90% of Cubs fans probably aren’t even really sure what AA is and certainly don’t understand the difference between the minor league systems. 

You have to remember that the people you’re talking baseball with around here, or anywhere on Al Gore’s interweb, know 500 times as much as the average fan and the average fan makes up 98% of the fans.  Even some of the clueless morons over at BCB know more than the average fan. 

It’s because of this that when Cubs fans have said the Cubs “overhype a prospect” it’s never made any sense to me.  Why would the Cubs waste time appealing to me and you when they can sell bobble head dolls of Alfonso Soriano and make money doing it? 

The one thing the Cubs organization will never do, I assure all of you, is make decisions to appease the few Cubs fans who actually know how to work the internet.

34. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:30 AM

I was wondering, did JeffF7 use an option last year? Does his contract basicly ensure that he MUST be on the active roster in 2010 due to using options every year of the minors?

35. MB21 (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:30 AM

From the Trib’s comments:

See?  Even he is one of the few Cubs fans who know more than the average fan and he’s fucking dumb as shit.

36. MB21 (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:31 AM

I was wondering, did JeffF7 use an option last year? Does his contract basicly ensure that he MUST be on the active roster in 2010 due to using options every year of the minors?

Yeah, he has one option left after this year.

37. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:32 AM

Shields’ ERA is good (3.91), but his W-L record mediocre (4-5). A clue to that can be found in the HR allowed (10).
—Cakes

This makes sense. I like pizza, but not anchovies. Why? Because carrots are orange.

38. ccd (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:37 AM

This makes sense. I like pizza, but not anchovies. Why? Because carrots are orange.

That’s why it’s the most popular cubs blog on the interweb.

Hey Ryno, I got banned yesterday too. I guess Al hates coleslaw. Were there any others banned for the get together.

39. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:39 AM

I got banned yesterday too.

Wow! Because you said you’d bring cole slaw? Did you get a special message when you logged in? Cakes = Hitler!

40. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:41 AM

Apparently Levine said Z is expected to miss one start.

41. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:43 AM

could be worse, could have been swept at home by the Royals.

42. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:47 AM

I got banned as well

my special message was “Go Away”

43. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:49 AM

I got banned as well

Wow.

BCB: Don’t Have Fun, Or Else!

44. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:50 AM

you know since they re-did the SB sites all you have to do is sign up an account at another teams site then add BCB to your blog list and you can post under a new name

45. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:51 AM

Oh, I’m going to ban Al from ACB

and his son.

46. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:54 AM

You can probably forget that widespread assumption that any team willing to trade three high-ceiling young players for C.C. Sabathia would first ask for a 72-hour window to try to sign him. The Indians have been telling teams they’re not interested in complicating their lives by opening any negotiating windows. And if Sabathia attracts the number of bidders they expect him to attract, they can afford to take that hard line.
—Stark

Well I would think that CLE just lowered Sabathia’s value.

Bill Bavasi got booted in Seattle as much for what he wouldn’t do (fire his manager, trade his Opening Day starter) as for anything he did do. So the biggest initial impact of his firing is that it means Erik Bedard is now officially on the market.

The first order of business for interim GM Lee Pelekoudas, according to one rival exec, was to “call around, and give instructions to all his scouts, to quietly get the word out that they’re open for business.”
—Stark

Do it. When asked what SEA could expect in return, an AL asst. GM said, “I’m really not sure anymore. They’re not going to get what they gave up. So realistically, what can they get—5 cents on the dollar? Maybe 10? They can still get a good package, but they won’t get five players back. … If I were them, I’d shop him hard to the National League. He’s a guy who’d be dominant in that league.”

47. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 11:57 AM

The Marlins are so convinced they’re going to be in the race to stay that other clubs report that they’re beginning to hunt for center fielders, catchers and bullpen help. But this has never been a team interested in quick fixes. So indications are they might be amenable to dealing some of their young players who would be eligible for arbitration this winter (Josh Willingham, anyone?), plus prospects, to bring back players they could control for several years.
—Stark

OK. I don’t know if they have anyone we’d want, but I’m SURE they value Pie pretty highly. At the very least, I’d think we could send him to FLA for something that could be sent to CLE, SEA or TOR.

48. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:03 PM

I got banned as well

hahaha i did too. I don’t even think i commented in that thread, i was too busy getting told how awesome johnson was. what a dink.

49. vladimir (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:06 PM

Apparently Levine said Z is expected to miss one start.

Sounds like you didn’t hear it yourself, but did he say at least one start, or just one start? But then again, why would the Cubs’ team doctor talk before they see an MRI? So he’s probably full of shit anyway.

50. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:07 PM

Sounds like you didn’t hear it yourself, but did he say at least one start, or just one start?

I read that he did NOT say ‘at least’ one start.

he’s probably full of shit anyway.

Probably.

51. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:08 PM

Al, check your email.

52. ccd (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:30 PM

wow, Al went on a banning frenzy!

53. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:34 PM

if you guys weren’t all hatefilled hatepersons who go around spreading hate, maybe Al wouldn’t have banned your soul-less hatefilled bodies


Go Fontenot!!!

54. ccd (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:34 PM

This is the latest from Gordon Whittenmyer’s Twitter account:

Cubs expect Z to miss at least a start or two; Marshall probably will get call from AAA. 32 minutes ago

Big Z update: No MRI today; scheduled for tomorrow. Was examined by team doc. No diagnosis yet. about 2 hours ago

Well it looks like there is something wrong certainly. Now we wait to hear what it is and how long. FUCK.

55. ccd (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:35 PM

if you guys weren’t all hatefilled hatepersons who go around spreading hate, maybe Al wouldn’t have banned your soul-less hatefilled bodies

well said…

56. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:39 PM

Big Z update: No MRI today; scheduled for tomorrow. Was examined by team doc. No diagnosis yet. about 2 hours ago

Wake me up when they get the results of that MRI

57. MB21 (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:55 PM

Well it looks like there is something wrong certainly. Now we wait to hear what it is and how long. FUCK.

I said last night I’d have been shocked if the Cubs let him make his next start and to be honest, I’d be really surprised if they didn’t put him on the DL come Saturday regardless of what, if anything, is wrong.  No reason to rush him back out there.  Give him 10 days to 14 days off and let him get going again (if nothing is found in the MRI).  I think that’s what the Cubs will do.

58. MB21 (view all comments) — Jun 19, 2008 @ 12:56 PM

Everyone except me got banned from BCB.  I’d just like to know if Al banned any of the BCB frequenters who had a great time in that thread. 

That thread was too good to delete.  Period.

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