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People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett

The latest update on Peavy from Rosenthal

Posted by MB21 on 11/11/08 at 08:52 AM • 59 Comments

Ken Rosenthal claims the Braves are getting fed up with talks with the Padres over Jake Peavy. 

The Braves are getting fed up.

After trying for more than a month to acquire Padres right-hander Jake Peavy, the team is beginning to explore other options, major-league sources say.

The Braves would still take Peavy, mind you. But they have informed the Padres that they could shift course rapidly once the free-agent market opens on Friday.

The Padres sent revised proposals to both the Braves and Dodgers yesterday and contrary to other rumors the Padres would be content to keep Jake Peavy if they don’t get a good enough offer.  I don’t buy that considering the financial problems the Padres owner is in and the fact that they’re reportedly cutting payroll to about $40 million.  I’m sure they’d be content to keep Peavy, but I don’t think they can, which is why Rosenthal said that neither the Cubs nor Braves would sweeten their offer.  The Padres are screwed.  They have to deal Peavy.

They’ve chosen to not offer Trevor Hoffman more than $4 million and are likely to lose him to free agency.  Again, they have to deal Peavy.

Rosenthal implies that the Padres have a better offer, or are at least capable of putting together a better offer, which is of little surprise. 

Then again, in the case of Peavy, the Padres might simply be waiting to the last possible moment to make the best possible deal.

The risk in that strategy is that it might cost them the players the Braves are willing to trade for Peavy — shortstop Yunel Escobar, either right-hander Charlie Morton or left-hander Jo Jo Reyes and either center fielder Gorkys Hernandez or Jordan Schaefer.

The Cubs might be offering a more established pitcher, left-hander Sean Marshall and perhaps a top prospect of their own, Class A third baseman Josh Vitters. But Escobar likely is the best player in either team’s proposal, and the Cubs cannot give the Padres a center fielder as promising as Hernandez or Schaefer.

Still, the Padres obviously are intrigued by the Cubs’ package; otherwise, they already would have traded Peavy to the Braves.

If the Cubs are willing to include Josh Vitters in the deal I just don’t see how the Braves offer is better.  Morton and Reyes are number 5 starters.  If the Padres want a number 5 starter how about they take Jason Marquis from the Cubs?  Gorkys Hernandez has a ton of potential, but that’s all it is.  He’s very young, but only hit for a .735 OPS in High A.  Felix Pie was a far superior prospect and probably still is a better prospect with a greater chance of succeeding at the big league level.  Jordan Schaefer is a pretty good prospect though and it’s one that would likely trump Josh Vitters.

All we really know right now is that the Padres are saying they don’t have to trade Peavy and that they have sent revised proposals to the Cubs and Braves.  It appears, according to Rosenthal, that neither team will blink knowing that the Padres do in fact have to trade Jake Peavy. 

I figure the Padres have 2 choices:  trade Peavy before the end of the week (before free agency begins) or wait until late December or later to trade him. 

The Cubs offer to Dempster is supposedly about the same as the 4/41 deal the Cardinals gave to Kyle Lohse.

Sources indicate that the Cubs’ four-year offer to free-agent right-hander Ryan Dempster is in the range of Kyle Lohse’s new $41 million deal with the Cardinals. Dempster surely would prefer to exceed Carlos Silva’s $48 million free-agent contract with the Mariners last offseason, but most executives consider that deal an aberration — read: mistake. Dempster, 31, pitched more than 200 innings last season for the first time since 2002, raising concerns about whether he can sustain such a workload. Still, teams such as the Braves and Blue Jays surely will consider him attractive

Yeah, he’d get a lot better offer if he waits awhile.  Probably not from the Cubs, but from another team anyway.

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1. ccd (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 10:42 AM

hopefully this whole thing is playing right into Jim Hendry’s hand.

2. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 10:48 AM

You’d think it is, ccd.  The Braves seem to think they can contend next year and need enough that they can’t sit around and wait.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Braves offer something ridiculous to Dempster in a couple of days if he hasn’t signed with the Cubs yet.  If they do that, they may look elsewhere for another pitcher and take their offer off the table leaving only the cubs as a possibility for Peavy and then Hendry has as much control as Peavy does with the negotiations. 

That’s why the Padres most likely would want to get this deal done within the next 48 hours.

3. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 10:53 AM

The Braves proclamation is definitely good news for the Cubs. If the Cubs don’t up their offer, and the Braves one is the better of the two and the Padres are just trying to squeeze more out, then they’ll get Peavy. However, if the Cubs want to, they can now probably know by exactly how much they have to increase their offer to surpass the Braves, since they now seem unwilling to get into a bidding war.

I kind of like the Cubs playing a little hardball w/ the Padres and w/ Dempster. This isn’t the team of 2 years ago where they had to overpay to become immediately competitive. I want them to be aggressive, but w/ the financial uncertainty and the already good product they have, I’m glad they’re reluctant to mortgage the future (in prospects are bad contracts) for the sake of the present.

4. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 10:56 AM

If Dempster (or any other Type A FA) goes to a team in the bottom-15, which ATL is, doesn’t one of their picks go from 1st round to supplemental/sandwich round? If so shouldn’t we be hoping Dempster goes to one of the just over .500 teams (dodgers, Florida, StL, Houston, etc.) so that the Cubs still get a Top-20 pick?

Obviously, the team has no control over that; I’m just trying to know what to expect if/when he signs w/ another team.

5. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 10:56 AM

I kind of like the Cubs playing a little hardball w/ the Padres and w/ Dempster. This isn’t the team of 2 years ago where they had to overpay to become immediately competitive. I want them to be aggressive, but w/ the financial uncertainty and the already good product they have, I’m glad they’re reluctant to mortgage the future (in prospects are bad contracts) for the sake of the present.

Yes, exactly, tyger.  It’s a great position to be in and one we Cubs fans aren’t familiar with.  The Braves are in the position the cubs were in a couple years ago, which is something new to them as well. 

Getting Peavy would be fantastic, but it’s far more important to the Braves than it is the Cubs and the fact the Cubs are still very much in the picture is excellent news in my opinion.

6. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 11:00 AM

If a team drafting in the bottom half of round 1 signs Dempster, the Cubs would then get a 2nd round pick rather than a 1st round pick.  Since Dempster (and Wood and Howry) are Type A free agents, they get 2 compensatory picks.  One is a supplemental pick and the other is either a 1st round or 2nd round pick which is determined by the spot in which they draft. 

So yeah, if Dempster signs elsewhere we’d like it to be to a team that drafts 16th through 30th.

7. ccd (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 11:22 AM

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Braves offer something ridiculous to Dempster in a couple of days if he hasn’t signed with the Cubs yet.  If they do that, they may look elsewhere for another pitcher and take their offer off the table leaving only the cubs as a possibility for Peavy and then Hendry has as much control as Peavy does with the negotiations. 

That’s why the Padres most likely would want to get this deal done within the next 48 hours.

That scenario sounds good to me. I don’t want to overpay Dempster. Peavy is an upgrade at the front end of the rotation.

I kind of like the Cubs playing a little hardball w/ the Padres and w/ Dempster. This isn’t the team of 2 years ago where they had to overpay to become immediately competitive. I want them to be aggressive, but w/ the financial uncertainty and the already good product they have, I’m glad they’re reluctant to mortgage the future (in prospects are bad contracts) for the sake of the present.

Don’t underestimate what is going on in the boardroom with this club. Revenues for 2009 will not be able to match 2008. This will have an impact on the moves the club makes. I don’t think this club with the uncertain ownership situation and a worldwide recession is going to make any sort of a splash with the FA market (Including Dempster and Wood if they get overpriced).

8. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 11:49 AM

From Buster Olney:

The Cubs and Padres have talked about a deal built around Josh Vitters, the Cubs’ top pick from 2007. But unlike the Braves, Chicago is not steeped in pitching, and so the Padres and Cubs are in the process of drawing in a third team into their talks, and that third team would be the side that would flip the pitching necessary to San Diego, in order to make the deal work for the Padres.

9. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 12:01 PM

And from the real source, Yellon and his stupid deep goat:

The bottom line is that I don’t think the Cubs are getting Jake Peavy, and that’s fine with me. Peavy’s numbers outside of Petco don’t scream “ace” to me, and his contract, four years’ worth, would hamstring the team in an era when some here are screaming for Hendry to dump some of the backloaded deals he’s handed out like Halloween candy over the last couple of years. The Cubs ought to also look hard at whoever is available in the Rule 5 draft and also at the non-tender list when it comes out in the middle of December.

Now I REALLY hope the Cubs get Peavy.

10. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 12:19 PM

The bottom line is that I don’t think the Cubs are getting Jake Peavy, and that’s fine with me. Peavy’s numbers outside of Petco don’t scream “ace” to me, and his contract, four years’ worth, would hamstring the team in an era when some here are screaming for Hendry to dump some of the backloaded deals he’s handed out like Halloween candy over the last couple of years. The Cubs ought to also look hard at whoever is available in the Rule 5 draft and also at the non-tender list when it comes out in the middle of December.

This officially makes Peavy the best pitcher ever.

11. ccd (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 12:23 PM

I can’t wait for Al to turn on a dime the minute the trade for Peavy is complete.

This side of getting Kevin Millar to play first what would Al be happy with?

12. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 12:36 PM

back-loaded contracts:
Zambrano
Ramirez
Soriano
Lilly
Fukudome
Marquis

I know of only two players on that list I’d want to get rid of… and it has very little to do w/ their contracts being back-loaded.

13. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 01:43 PM

Al’s funny.  Has his source ever been right?  I’m well aware that these types of rumors from sources no matter how reliable they may be are wrong much more frequently than they are right, but has Al’s source EVER been right?

14. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 01:51 PM

Kevin Goldstein has a lot of good things to say about josh Vitters who he ranked number 1 in the cubs top 11 prospects.  If any of you have a subscription check it out.

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8296

Vitters was listed a 5-star (Excellent) prospect and Samardzija and Ceda as 4-star prospects.

15. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 01:55 PM

For Jose Ceda Goldstein says…

Perfect World Projection: He should become a dominating closer.
Glass Half Empty: Unless his control problems become a constant, or something else unpredictable happens, it’s hard to not see Ceda pitching in the late innings.

17. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:05 PM

Can you quote some of that, ryno?  My computer won’t allow me to visit the site.

18. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:08 PM

My computer won’t allow me to visit the site.

You must have a statfag computer.

19. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:08 PM

Desipio (dolan) says he knows a guy who says Peavy to the Cubs is basically a done deal and, wait for it, Ryan Theriot is going to San Diego.

http://www.desipio.com/?p=1782

20. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:09 PM

« Thank GodAn Ode To My Dear Friend Ryno (Jame Gumb)
For starters, here you go, buddy. Just for you.

For those unaware(s), (with an ’s’ as the British would have it), Ryno wrote up a faux interview with me over at ACB. I must say, I enjoyed it and found it very humorous. It can only be flattering when someone can recite so many of your creations line by line.

He touched on so many subjects:

- Maddog being a typical drug addict personality, in other words, a compulsive liar.


- My disdain for disrespectful statfags. You’ve got the smug moron faggots like Shawn D. Goldman and Faggous Maximus. You’ve got the malevolent, belligerent, juvenile faggots like Dylan and Tyger. And then you’ve simply got the conformed faggots at large like those at the Baseball Fag Factory. All these guys out there who think they’ve got baseball sorted out from stats. They don’t. They repudiated defense for years. But now that it’s become better quantified… meaning, now that there are good stats for it… the faggots have found value for it. Some of us didn’t need stats for that.

So many of these statties… a bunch of goddamn cotton-pickin’ faggots. A bunch of vegetarian feminists.

- Ryno quoted my finest moment at this blog, a moment of inspiration and poetic genius:

These dumbfucks may as well be playing Dungeons and Fucking Dragons with their fucking stats.

That line is the zenith for all of baseball blogging history. Who knows, maybe even Ryno might agree.

- He gave me a hard time over leadoff man and tried to paint me as a waffler on where the obp should be set. He actually missed the point in that post which was that teams with better leadoff men tend to succeed in the playoffs. And then, when I said the Red Sox were somewhat an exception this year because they have so many potent bats following the leadoff man, he had to be a pain in the ass and split hairs. He gets my point and probably agrees with it regardless of what he’ll admit around the statties.

- He made fun of me for saying the Cubs were going to lose the game after the Z/Barrett fight last year no matter what. Once again, while being funny, he missed the larger point. I knew we’d take off once we got dumbfuck Barrett off the fucking field and I was right. And then when we traded for Kendall for no good reason, I was right again when I said our success streak was over. Once again, if pressed to it, he’d admit I was right. C’mon Ryno, just fucking admit it.

- Some guys can pitch the ninth and some can’t. You’re goddamn right. He’s making fun of me on this one, successfully, despite the fact that he agrees with me. LaTroy should have been pulled from the role once it was apparent that he wasn’t up for it. Had we pulled the plug on that in 2004, we might have found ourselves in the playoffs.

- Most of the statties who talk shit at this blog are some of my most devoted readers. I don’t allow a lot of their comments anymore, but make no mistake about it, these cotton-pickin’ dildos read every word of this blog. Best Cubs blog on the internet. The only other one where you might learn about the team is JBrokaw’s site. But, he’s not exclusively a Cubs blog.

Ryno, c’mon, you forgot to make fun of me for JB. I’m disappointed. You’ve done it in the past.

- One of the worst, most idiotic faggots ever to taint the internet is this complete imbecile named Dan Fagborski of the Baseball Fag Factory. Imbecile doesn’t begin to do justice with this twat. He makes Maddog look honest. He makes Tyger look mannered. He makes Shawn D. Goldman look interesting. Fuck, he makes Faggous Maximus look masculine. The guy is never right about anything, but acts like he’s a fucking Nobel Laureate on baseball.

He had this picture of himself in his profile that made Elton John look attractive. He was dressed up in some gay ass papal looking number with the geekiest fucking smile you’ve ever seen. It was hideous.

Ryno, I think you could have done better with this one. You’re a clever bastard and it’s a fun subject. God knows I won’t be sporting any Catholic gear.

- Jeopardy. An unsophisticated dumb fucking hick like Tyger isn’t going to know many answers to Jeopardy questions. Most of these little college stathead fucks won’t either. While it’s not the SAT’s of sophistication and erudition, if you’ve got a person who knows a lot of the answers, it’s at least saying something.

I do applaud Ryno for making fun of me on this one. It’s funny.

- Ah yes. I love telling these hicks that they’re a bunch of slipknot-listening to, beer from the can, quasi-scientific feminists. Ryno loves it too. He honors me with his recitation.

Someone’s gotta call a spade a spade… or a know-it-all dumb fucking rube a dumb hick talking shit.

- ‘The most important things for a pitcher are innings and wins.’ I wouldn’t make that blanket a statement, but let’s take a look at our innings and wins leaders:

IP:

CC Sabathia
Roy Halladay
Johan Santana
Cole Hamels
Tim Lincecum
Brandon Webb
Cliff Lee
AJ Burnett
etc.

Wins:

Cliff Lee
Brandon Webb
Mike Mussina
Roy Halladay
Tim Lincecum
Daisuke Matsuzaka
AJ Burnett
Gavin Floyd

Looks pretty good to me. The three Cy Young guys, Webb, Lincecum, and Lee, find themselves on both lists.

* * *

Alas, Ryno, you lost me on the last one, the Marquis/Harden thing. And I think Zima fits the joke far better than Boon’s, don’t you?

Buddy, indeed, I was ‘dying laughing’ when I read the ‘interview’. Thank you. You spend more time at that site reciting me than anything else. I hate to disappoint you, but I won’t be providing much new material in the future. I’m pretty much over the blogging thing. I don’t have as much time lately, and when I do… I hate wasting it on fucking baseball.

I’m surprised I even took the time to do this one. But, you deserved a response. Your post was great.

Fairly soon, it’ll be ‘Goodbye Horses’ for me. Or, in other words, goodbye dumb hick faggot statheads who are good for nothing but talking shit.

21. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:09 PM

You must have a statfag computer.

I just blocked the site from all the computers I use back in March or April.  I didn’t even want to accidentally click on the site.

22. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:13 PM

So that was basically his going away post and he wrote about this site in some way or another.  Priceless.

23. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:21 PM

So that was basically his going away post

I hope not.

I must say that I’m really surprised that no one accused me of being (dying laughing) (or vice versa).

24. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:22 PM

Desipio (dolan) says he knows a guy who says Peavy to the Cubs is basically a done deal and, wait for it, Ryan Theriot is going to San Diego.

There’s not way. It’s impossible.

25. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:28 PM

I must say that I’m really surprised that no one accused me of being (dying laughing) (or vice versa).

I thought about that before.  more than once, but it’s too hard to believe.

26. J (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:30 PM

There’s not way. It’s impossible.

Yea, that’s like 20 cents on the dollar for Peavy.

27. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:31 PM

I must say that I’m really surprised that no one accused me of being (dying laughing) (or vice versa).

I checked. You have different IP addresses, unless you’re good at filtering.

28. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:41 PM

Yea, that’s like 20 cents on the dollar for Peavy.

That’s about all Peavy will get, J.  He’s not worth a whole lot to a team that can only trade him to a couple of teams when that team MUST trade him.  the Padres are fucked and there’s nothing they can do about it.  Whatever deal they get will be a shitty one.

29. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:45 PM

Desipio (dolan) says he knows a guy who says Peavy to the Cubs is basically a done deal and, wait for it, Ryan Theriot is going to San Diego.

Furcal!

30. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:46 PM

I was mentioned. Fun.

31. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:52 PM

I was mentioned. Fun.

A typical post from (dying laughing) has to include several people he dislikes.

Dan from BTF
Maddog
Tyger
ACB in general
GM
sometimes Ryno and ccd, but he seems to like both of them
feminists
hicks

32. J (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:54 PM

  Whatever deal they get will be a shitty one.

Ryan Theriot for Jake Peavy, that’s crazy shit.

33. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:56 PM

John Donovan seems to think Dunn is only going to get 33M over 3 years.  I think the Cubs could put up with crappy defense for that type of contract.

If Dolan is correct then I will look for Furcal to sign within a week or two after 11/14 with the Cubs.  But maybe Hendry is going to roll the dice and just plan on getting one of renteria, cabrera or maybe even Lopez.

34. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:57 PM

Solomon Torres retired so the brewers bullpen just got worse again.

35. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 02:58 PM

Ryan Theriot for Jake Peavy, that’s crazy shit.

More than that, J.  Marshall, Pie and Theriot plus minor leaguers for Peavy plus minor leaguers.

36. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:08 PM

Well i suppose Cedeno could be the SS.  But seriously….

37. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:10 PM

I would argue that the Cubs might be able to get him with a package that could include Felix Pie and Sean Marshall. This is pure speculation on my part, and likely they’d have to put another prospect in such a deal, but Pie would be an immediate starter in Florida and Marshall would replace the traded Scott Olsen in the Marlins’ rotation. - Al.

Why would they trade for Pie a year after acquiring Cameron Maybin? And why would Pie start before Maybin, unless he envisions him moving to a different OF position?

38. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:11 PM

I would assume if Theriot is gone then the cubs will go after Furcal.  That almost certainly means no Dempster and no Wood and it may even mean DeRosa in RF with Fontenot at 2nd base.

39. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:12 PM

Why would they trade for Pie a year after acquiring Cameron Maybin? And why would Pie start before Maybin, unless he envisions him moving to a different OF position?

Why would you expect Al to be logical or to, you know, have a clue about this game?  What’s wrong with you?  This is a new low point for you.

40. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:14 PM

Why would you expect Al to be logical or to, you know, have a clue about this game?  What’s wrong with you?  This is a new low point for you.

I’m sorry.

41. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:19 PM

Gammons just said he still thinks Peavy ends up with the Braves.

42. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:19 PM

I would assume if Theriot is gone then the cubs will go after Furcal.  That almost certainly means no Dempster and no Wood and it may even mean DeRosa in RF with Fontenot at 2nd base.

Marquis can always be traded to help free up some payroll. I read somewhere that DeRosa could potentially be put on the market for a RF.

43. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:20 PM

I’m sorry.

That’s not good enough.

44. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:21 PM

I mentioned last night that the Cubs could trade DeRosa, but I’d be surprised to see it happen.  Between Marquis and DeRosa they do have some payroll flexibility though.  If they could find some insane team to take fukudome they’d have a lot more.

45. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 03:59 PM

Lincecum wins Cy Young. Brandon Webb gets second in the voting over Santana. The writers are dumb.

(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

46. Jame Gumb ® (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 04:53 PM

Gammons just said he still thinks Peavy ends up with the Braves.

It doesn’t really matter.

47. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 05:13 PM

i’m still surprised if greene doesn’t come back, especially if theriot is included

48. Harry Pavlidis (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 07:14 PM

In a surreal moment, Rich Hill just got Matt Murton to ground into a double play.  Murton just joined Caracas, apparently.

49. Harry Pavlidis (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 07:16 PM

It doesn’t really matter.

If Peavy goes to Atlanta, or what Gammons thinks?

50. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 07:26 PM

If Peavy goes to Atlanta, or what Gammons thinks?

Ryno’s one of those Cubs fans who thinks the Cubs could have the AL All-star team and they’d still fail to win it all.  So “it doesn’t matter” is that it won’t help the Cubs win because nothing can.

51. Harry Pavlidis (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 07:32 PM

Rich Hill imploding now.

52. Harry Pavlidis (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 07:34 PM

eight straight balls to put two on with two out, but after a stern talking to by the manager or pitching coach (not sure which), he got the next batter on a generous third strike.

He threw two nice curveballs, one a first pitch strike, but you could see he was missing spots with the fastball, only threw one cutter, and suddenly, dropped his arm a little (or so it looked) once, and then it seemed his tempo was too fast.  Fragile.

53. ccd (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 07:43 PM

Fragile.

That’s the best word to describe Hill’s psyche. What a shame. The talent seems to be there, but for some reason the mental side of the game is hard.

54. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 08:22 PM

Yeah, fragile is a nice way to describe it.  I hate getting into the psychology aspect of baseball, but if there was ever a head case, it’s Rich Hill. 

how many innings so far, HP?

55. Harry Pavlidis (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 09:05 PM

Yanked after four ... details at the link

http://www.cubsfx.com/2008/11/rich-hill-en-vivo.html

56. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 09:20 PM

Certainly better than his last start, but still not good at all.

57. Harry Pavlidis (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 11:10 PM

Not good, all things considered.  That curve is sick, though.  He has serious upside, and serious risk.

Re. Geo, sorry if this was discussed before, as I’ve not been around, but I’m thinking he’ll get a few MVP votes, not enough to accumulate significant points, but he’ll appear on a bunch of ballots.

58. (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 11:16 PM

I remember reading some SI article back in like 2005 where some anonymously cited scout was talking about how Rich Hill’s mechanics—particularly how high his front shoulder is delivering the ball—would keep him from ever having good control on a long-term basis, that his delivery was too awkward to be repeatable, and that he would always walk too many batters to be successful. Seeing what’s happened to him this year, that explanation makes a lot of sense to me. Not that I know anything about pitching mechanics.

59. MB21 (view all comments) — Nov 11, 2008 @ 11:43 PM

Hill’s screwy mechanics have always seemed an issue for some reason or another and it’s not always the same thing.  He doesn’t repeat his delivery well at all.  People talk about Zambrano not doing that well, but compared to Rich Hill, Zambrano looks like Maddux in his ability to repeat his delivery.

I figure Hill’s control sucked in the minors until late 2006 and all of 2007.  So you either had a fluke or a real improvement.  Looks to be those were flukes.

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